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Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

reuters.com

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Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#431

Post by munk-a »

gutitout wrote: post #327
godmode2019 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also has the following affect: """Don't the Russians already own Chernobyl? I guess it must not be in Russia. I saw a movie and I think they were speaking Russian. Wow they must be crazy actually entering a radiation zone, won't half of the troops die from exposure. I wouldn't want my son fighting those lunatics."""

A lot of people there do speak Russian there. And yes it’s still radioactive, albeit less than a few decades ago. If you’re sending your son to fight, radiation probably the last thing to kill him.

And to add to this - burn pits, and other common actions in the waging of war, can cause more severe chemical damage than radiation. When the order of the day is "We're killing other people" there tends to be a lot less emphasis on doing things as safely as possible.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#432

Post by rmk »

newuser94303 wrote: post #309
ethbr0 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China invading Taiwan at some point in the future And that's the perspective this should be viewed from. The US may not have a firm interest in Ukraine. The US has a fairly firm interest in Taiwan. The US has a serious interest in Korea, Japan, and the countries bordering the South China Sea. You have to strongly and unconditionally support international order re: Ukraine, so that Xi takes away the right message.

I think the stronger message is that the US is trying to move chip manufacturing to the US so it will not care about Taiwan.

After decades of cheerfully deindustrializing and giving up the source of ordinary people's prosperity, the US is waking up to the stupidity of doing this. It's very visible in the chip industry because it's very visibly dominated by just a couple of firms and because a large range of seemingly simple things can not function without sophisticated integrated circuits.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#433

Post by bragr »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #394
bayesian_horse wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they seized it because they need the general area to move their troops. In that case they can't tolerate Ukrainian troops there, but somebody has to be in control and responsible for this site to ensure, among other things, no terrorists make off with radioactive material. I'm totally condemning the Russian actions, but in this particular case they may be acting somewhat responsibly. Unlike with the bombing o…

> but somebody has to be in control and responsible for this site to ensure, among other things, no terrorists make off with radioactive material Please… Russians will just use it for their propaganda as a support to the claim that Ukraine was working on nuclear weapons.

That would be an awkward claim considering Ukraine _had_ nuclear weapons and gave them up to Russia in the 90s for guarantees about Ukraine's territorial integrity. Obviously that didn't work so well for Ukraine now

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#434

Post by rob74 »

dudeinhawaii wrote: post #428

I'm genuinely curious at what point a bully threatening you with MAD can be stopped if you value the existence of your own civilization? Say Russian conquers all of Ukraine and moves troops to the Polish border and parks some tanks a bit inside. What then? Strongly worded essays? If Russia isn't raining hell on Poland, then NATO is forced to .. apply sanctions, make threats, but take no action since the escalation an…

Or, as Sting once sang, "I hope the Russians love their children too" - in this case, one particular Russian...

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#435

Post by xtian »

tlear wrote: post #414
squarefoot wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. Yes, but although Putin is a bloody bastard, he's not stupid. His plan isn't to take entire control of Ukraine militarily but to swap the legit government with a puppet one he would control at will. Once he succeed, which is a matter of a few days, he'll gradually withdraw most of the forces, things will slowly return to normal and in a few years Ukr…

You missed the step where he needs to brutalize population into submission. This will take time and mountains of corpses. He can’t just put a puppet there and call it a day. Puppet will be dead by week after. No he has to occupy the country and crush the opposition.

Willing to put money on that?

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#437

Post by stevehawk »

newuser94303 wrote: post #242
GrayShade wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They won't. They want Russian support when they invade Taiwan.

They don't need Russian support to attack Taiwan and Russian economic support is meaningless. They won't do it because there is no incentive to. The US has to bribe them. Think of China like an evil corporation. They won't do anything except for their own best interests. Like Facebook with nukes.

Russian support won't come in the form of money or weapons. It'll come in the form of shutting off gas lines to the EU or invading the next set of non NATO countries in the EU, forcing the major military powers of the EU and NA to decide between protecting Europe or protecting Taiwan.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#438

Post by rad_gruchalski »

pkaye wrote: post #215
avazhi wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America will do nothing except 'strongly condemn' what's happening, just like the rest of the world. The simple fact is that there is no real upside to risking actual war with Russia - that the Russians will dominate the Ukraine while walking away with a bloody nose (in the form of minor troop losses of its own) is a foregone conclusion. Without more, that's a localised conflict that Russia rather hilariously can try…

> America will do nothing except 'strongly condemn' what's happening, just like the rest of the world. People don't want a 'world police' anymore.

Maybe a better way to phrase it is “people don’t remember why it was good to have world police”.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#439

Post by Hokusai »

munk-a wrote: post #429
dudeinhawaii wrote: post #428

I'm genuinely curious at what point a bully threatening you with MAD can be stopped if you value the existence of your own civilization? Say Russian conquers all of Ukraine and moves troops to the Polish border and parks some tanks a bit inside. What then? Strongly worded essays? If Russia isn't raining hell on Poland, then NATO is forced to .. apply sanctions, make threats, but take no action since the escalation an…

I think that's a good point but I also think it's important to remember that war suuucks . A citizen in Ukraine right now is not having a good day, there have been arbitrary arrests and some fighting in the streets... but if other military powers got involved they'd be having an even worse day with mass destruction of property and loss of life. Escalating a conflict to using deadly force can be a necessary step to pr…

That happened in the Spanish civil war. Guernica famous painting depicts the bombing by Italian and German aviation of the city of Guernica.

The United Kingdom didn't wanted to be part of it, thou.

Ironically, I think that more countries intervention would have make the Spanish war bloodier but it could have stopped World War II.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#440

Post by bllguo »

throw10920 wrote: post #412
RC_ITR wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that was a 99 year lease expiring. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_for_the_Extension_o...

...the Sino-British Joint Declaration is still in effect, until 2047. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration

Doesn't change the fact that HK was not "annexed," nor was/is it majority "unwilling."
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