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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#431

As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…

Ex-paramedic turned comp sci researcher here.

> There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over"

I totally agree. Last week saw a dentist and this morning (10:02) two sales ladies at a baker's embedded in an EDEKA supermarket with no mask, one of them coughing. When pointing out politely that they should really put their masks on, my comment of mine was ignored. The unfair thing is that it won't be these people dying, but likely third parties that did nothing wrong (like the elderly couple behind me in the queue).

There is a huge debate focusing on vaccination, about forcing people to do it etc., but schools are open, kindergardens are open (every parent knows that's where stuff spreads), people shop, socialise, eat together, work together almost if there was nothing going on.

The government failed to point out that vaccinated people can still get CoViD because they were afraid it would stop people from getting the jab, so they assumed they were safe and went back to pre-CoViD behavior patterns. The government is reducing the testing regime, so future numbers will be less reliable.

Public TV station ARD/Das Erste started to lose credibility with me when they claimed on Twitter that medical masks don't protect. That is false/"fake news": the truth is they are designed to protect the patient when worn by staff, so their protection is asymmetric and biased against the wearer and in favor of the person talking to the wearer. But they do provide a little protection even for the wearer, as the larger droplets get caught by them, and catching a virus also depends on the amount and concentration of viral material exposed to. (The reason the posted the tweet was because at the time, there was a shortage and they did not want that non-medical staff buy them up so there was enough of a supply for medical staff. It's okay to ask people to stop buying them for that reason but not feeding them with false information to make them stop.)

The new government put a general in place to run a task force and instead of saying "fantastic, why didn't the previous government think of that?" the press questioned why leaders who all declined military service on the grounds of conscience appointed a military man (the candidate seems to be a supply chain expert, so not a bad choice - although I personally would pick a paramedic because pandemic training is part of one's education, at least it was back in the 1990s when I did mine).

Despite all of this, in fairness the situation in Germany is much better than in other countries (I can only say that from personal knowledge about the UK, France and the US), and I would say that at the beginning, the government did a good job in absolute and relative terms.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So uh, maybe we decide that life doesn’t need to be permanently centered around Covid and just move on? And realistically that is what society will do. Move on. There are infinitely more problems in the world than just Covid. Solving for exactly Covid to the exclusion of literally everything else is complete madness. Any rational person will tell you that. Life is to short to maintain a Covid centric lifestyle… life…

> Oh yeah, and we’ve been wringing our hands about hospital capacity for 2 years now. Perhaps we should ask why there isn’t any effort at all into increasing it? Yeah seriously, it’s been two years, why haven’t we doubled the number of doctors and nurses by now? Just add more conveyor belts to our factorio.

You could start by not laying off workers who refuse to get vaccinated.

You know, the same workers who have been on the front lines exposed to the virus for two years and have unquestionably developed immunity. Forcing mandates onto them is insanity. They are not spreading covid.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had covid, but have no certificate with PCR test. I had positive home self test. I did not want to ride bus and visit hospital, with 38 degree fever, to get official PCR test. Instead I just self isolated for 2 weeks like an idiot. They will now force me to take a shot. I have to risk severe alergic reaction. I am also vaccinated, but Jansen does not count anymore.

Sorry to hear that, but you may overestimate your own risk: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34463744/ At this point, we're talking about the most-tested vaccine in all of the world. Even if your chance of dying is increased by 5x, that's equivalent to about 10 hours of driving a car at average Autobahn speeds. If you're prepared to take that kind of risk every year, I'd invite you to just go do it.

Look, some of my relatives had severe side effects and are now chronically ill. When I got my shot, doctor had adrenaline injection ready. My GP now says I should pay the fines and not risk my life.

This vaccine is not tested, nobody knows how it behaves with different medications, or even after 50 years.

And there is consensus vaccine will trigger allergic reaction in people who recently passed hard form of covid.

Honestly, next time I encounter troll like you, I will just socker punch him into face.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#434
post #285
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

That’s wrong information. Twice-vaccinated people will have to get a booster shot and there are discussions about a six month expiry date if you don’t get the booster shot. What happens beyond that we do not know right now since can’t look into the future. We do not know how effective the booster will be in terms of long-term protection. All of that is not surprising. A bit annoying but not surprising.

if it's the same shot as the originals, which is my understanding, then it's reasonable to assume a similar expiry

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#435

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I think it's worth to point out here that since "it's in everyone's best interest to get vaccinated" you can't really call it taking "one for the team".

People getting vaccinated are taking "one for the team" and at the same time "looking out for number one". That's the beauty of it, really: aligned incentives.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#436
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

You cannot make this virus extinct . These vaccines do not accomplish this goal, the end.

Why not? We eradicated smallpox.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#437
post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

For what it is worth, in the UK there were similar concerns.

They set up "Nightingale Hospitals" (reference to Florence Nightingale) - basically convention centres were converted into field hospitals with ventilators. One in London had 4000 beds, and there were others elsewhere in the country. It took 9 days to build the London one (I was impressed!)

After all that, the 4000 bed one in London treated 20 patients during the first wave: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56327214 Most are now shutdown or being used as vaccination centres from what I know.

If the UK can pull this off in 9 days, I am sure other more sophisticated countries can do the same if they need to.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#438
post #90

Very thought-provoking this mistreatment of the unvaccinated. The process started with demonizing them to the point of being singled out and blamed for how the disease is impacting society. When the discrimination started, there were very few willing to speak for them. Particularly malicious was the expansion of the term anti-vaxxer typically used for a fringe minority which “rejects all vaccines for everyone” to all…

I’m not vaccinated, this is how I feel. I am not militant or political about it. My wife and whole family are vaccinated and I helped them to do it. As a young man, the risk of heart issues does indeed outweigh the risk of hospitalisation from the virus (as I’ve weighed it, anyhow). Victoria, Australia has hit 90% double vaccinated and case numbers have not changed here. To see this underwhelming effect in light of t…

What makes you think the risk of heart issues is higher from the vaccine than the risk of heart issues from a non-hospitalized incidence of covid?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#439

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

How many footballers have to drop dead on the pitch before you remove the scales from your eyes?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#440

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

> the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back

Were people really asked to cast their vote by vaccinating themselves?

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