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What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

houstonchronicle.com

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Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#431

Post by cavisne »

gregw2 wrote: post #117

What went wrong is that the Texas legislature which owns Texas-specific grid process to avoid interference from the Feds didn't figure out how to also ensure Texas generator companies got compensated for weatherizing (and ensuring it was done). How many of the 24+6 recommendations from the NERC/FERC review of last time this happened in Texas (hint:2011) were taken up by the legislature or those at ERCOT they delegate…

It's hilarious to look back on this HN post and the top comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14630650

Exactly the same thing happened in South Australia in 2016

1) Renewables % of generation mix grows (wind + solar)

2) Base generation sources get pushed out by economics and regulation (coal)

3) Peak generation sources get squeezed by the economics of wind + solar over summer (lots of wind, lots of sun) and begin to be relegated to backup roles

4) Something bad happens (in SA it was software misconfiguration across multiple wind generation sources)

5) The backup generation gets used for the first time, suprise suprise it doesnt work

6) chaos

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#432

Post by ceejayoz »

newbie789 wrote: post #415

Can somebody explain as if I were a kindergartner why exactly natural gas is down by such a large amount in the state? Did the pipes freeze? Does natural gas not burn efficiently in snowy conditions? How will raising the spot price dramatically help with these physical conditions of the pipelines/other power production/distribution apparatus in such a way that providing power becomes available more quickly (if at all…

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-st...

> The systems that get gas from the earth aren't properly built for cold weather. Operators in West Texas’ Permian Basin, one of the most productive oil fields in the world, are particularly struggling to bring natural gas to the surface, analysts said, as cold weather and snow close wells or cause power outages that prevent pumping the fossil fuels from the ground.

> “Gathering lines freeze, and the wells get so cold that they can’t produce,” said Parker Fawcett, a natural gas analyst for S&P Global Platts. “And, pumps use electricity, so they’re not even able to lift that gas and liquid, because there’s no power to produce.”

> Texas does not have as much storage capacity as other states, experts said, because the resource-laden state can easily pull it from the ground when it's needed — usually.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#433

Post by ag56 »

gowld wrote: post #327
ip26 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, if you think about it almost all of the heat from the fire goes right up the chimney. The brick of the firebox & chimney are generally built outside the building envelope for safety reasons, so any heat in the brick doesn't warm the house. The only heat that actually makes its way into the house is the radiant heat cast from the fire itself, which is small. The smoke is poison, and unlike a furnace, gas firepl…

Why don't we run radiator water pipes across the chimney, to bring that heat back to the house?

The house I grew up in in Scotland did exactly this.

We had fireplace powered central heating -— radiators throughout the house linked to pipes behind the firebox. In the morning I’d wake up to ice on the inside of the windows, and by my teenage years it was my job to head downstairs and light the coal fire first thing in the morning. It worked well once the fire was up and running.

This was in the ‘90s btw, I’m not _that_ old.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#434

Post by sjg007 »

lurquer wrote: post #214
cvhashim wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, what are people with children, elderly, or pets doing.

Are you people for real? What did people with children, elderly, and pets do 150 years ago? If your house is 25f, put on a couple sweaters and a coat and have a beer. It’s not the end of the world. As far as the kids go, they’re outside building snowforts. In short, you make do. It astounds me that the typical HN poster can whip up a C++ compiler, pontificate about solutions to every social-ill, purport to speak inte…

They burned wood.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#435

Post by kolencherry »

benlivengood wrote: post #393
redisman wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it not good for heating? I'm sure resistance based electric heating is very efficient. I've lived in very cold places and the heat has almost always been electric or water heated by electric. You just need radiators. Northern European countries for example use that a lot and the temperatures are often as low as -22F. Of course they build to optimize for low temperatures unlike TX.

Boilers/furnaces are ~90% efficient now. Combined electrical/heat generation can only hit 50-80% efficiency. In theory heat pumps powered by electricity would be the most efficient option.

Heat pumps don’t work particularly well below 25F. Our heat pump switched to auxiliary heat (electric resistance heating) with how cold it’s been in Texas.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#436

Post by justinzollars »

Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #286
svnpenn wrote: post #20

Dallas suburb here (Las Colinas). No power since Monday 6am. I had to get room at holiday inn. I actually got the room yesterday, but the hotel lost power after an hour, so I had to go back home and sleep in 5 degree apartment. Don't believe anything you read about "rolling outages". It's only rolling, if you define that as "out until it's not freezing anymore".

Houston right now, haven't had power, nor water since yesterday. My room is sitting at 20ish degrees and has been all day. I've quite literally been snug under a load of blankets with my wife all day just to stay warm. My office back in Dallas which is not normally open offered to let people stay the night since they happen to be on the same grid as a hospital and I seriously considered trying to make it there today

dude, go to the office. Its too cold to sleep in those conditions.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#437

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

foxtr0t wrote: post #284
gregw2 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote: All 7 developers in my Houston team (semi-geographically scattered in the city) lost power; half for >24 hrs (it's 10-25 degrees F here for the last 2-3 days). Most lost water for some stretch of time and some still don't have it. I don't think any completely lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work t…

>Most lost water for some stretch of time and some still don't have it. This is extremely problematic. Power going out for periods of time less than 48 hours is one thing, losing water from the utility is a problem 3rd world countries have. You sure these people's pipes didn't simply freeze. If its the utility, shame on Texas.

Even if your pipes didn't freeze, the upstream pipes could have frozen, or enough of your neighbors' pipes could have frozen, burst, and gotten thawed again, allowing water to flow freely out of the system.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#439

Post by zamadatix »

senectus1 wrote: post #288
Dobbs wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear power plants in Texas are down due to the cold.

plant. singular.

Singular, yes, of two total. I think the point still stands, simply saying "nuclear good" isn't the answer to the problems from this event.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#440

Post by [deleted] »

7thaccount wrote: post #207
txlpo78 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This current problems wouldn’t be fixed if Texas wasn’t on its own grid. The Texas grid does have connections to the other grids, and even right now is importing power from both the East and West interconnections. The problem is that this is a truly regional event and not just isolated to Texas. The entire central US is struggling right now. The SPP (which manages electricity for Oklahoma, Nebraska, Arkansas, and oth…

I tried to say the same above. When the entire south is low on capacity, being fully AC interconnected probably doesn't help much even if the DC ties had more capacity.

[deleted]
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