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What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

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Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#191

Nuclear is the cheapest, cleanest, safest form of electricity generation. Do some research into who pushed FUD propaganda about Nuclear industry, (Big oil) and who paid off the shrill environmental FUD lobby, (Bug oil). Nuclear power is used safely in aircraft carriers and submarines for decades. It's time to build more nuclear power and build the cleaner, safer, cheaper electrical energy future.

Nuclear power plants in Texas are down due to the cold.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#192
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of these technologies can and do work well in very cold climates. The technologies can work, but only if measures are taken to make them work that way, and those measures are expensive. Texas' grid, like most of the nation's grid, is optimized to keep prices low for consumers and profits steady for generators and distributors, and it's worked amazingly well at that. But "running lean" is great and everyone wins…

I've had power out for over a day and am fine. I would not pay any more money to avoid this once every thirty years, or even once a decade, for a few days. Mostly because paying the cost to prepare for one of these is reasonable, but preparing for all of them would be very expensive and I will trade cheap power for the occasional inconvenience.

Your perspective is very self-centered. People die when power goes out for extended periods like this. Especially if the weather is exceptionally hot or cold.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#193

The Texas-only grid was definitely part of it, and should be a lesson to people who thought the lesson from Covid is "do more locally." No, having stronger, longer distance connections is what makes you more resilient, at least when there are local problems.

Agree on the point about Texas extreme stance on having their own power grid. I don’t known if there’s enough micro grids in Texas to determine how well, or not, they worked in these conditions.

It's not that extreme. Texas is huge. Having it's own grid is not some support of excessively-local craziness.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#194
post #132
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's probably not that clear cut. What happens in a cascading blackout scenario? If you are part of a larger pool are you more exposed to have a service disruption now when there is a problem in another part of the grid of the pool that you don't directly control?

You can isolate yourself from cascading blackouts while still being able to share power. This is why they may cross several states, but never hit nationwide.

The Texas Interconnection has DC ties to the Eastern Interconnection, so... power can be shared.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#195

The Texas-only grid was definitely part of it, and should be a lesson to people who thought the lesson from Covid is "do more locally." No, having stronger, longer distance connections is what makes you more resilient, at least when there are local problems.

Also thinking longer term, climate change is making the polar vortex more unstable and more prone to "freak" incidents like this. Of course there has been zero thought put into any of the effects of that.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had power out for over a day and am fine. I would not pay any more money to avoid this once every thirty years, or even once a decade, for a few days. Mostly because paying the cost to prepare for one of these is reasonable, but preparing for all of them would be very expensive and I will trade cheap power for the occasional inconvenience.

> every thirty years Climate change says hi.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#197
I've lived through years of load-shedding. The biggest difference was we were entirely decoupled from the system - well/handpump, gas cylinder, overhead tank to store water, ..etc. It's not by choice - we just can't rely on any of the city provided services.

Even today, homes are built with an overhead tank and anyone who can afford it has a UPS capable of powering the home for a few hours under load or a few days if used sparingly.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#198
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of these technologies can and do work well in very cold climates. The technologies can work, but only if measures are taken to make them work that way, and those measures are expensive. Texas' grid, like most of the nation's grid, is optimized to keep prices low for consumers and profits steady for generators and distributors, and it's worked amazingly well at that. But "running lean" is great and everyone wins…

I've had power out for over a day and am fine. I would not pay any more money to avoid this once every thirty years, or even once a decade, for a few days. Mostly because paying the cost to prepare for one of these is reasonable, but preparing for all of them would be very expensive and I will trade cheap power for the occasional inconvenience.

"I wouldn't pay any more money to avoid this" is a remarkable low cost tolerance.

I would love to know just how much we'd be talking about per-customer. Ten cents over ten years? A dollar over ten years? Twenty dollars? More?

Without knowing that "I wouldn't pay any more" seems foolhardy.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#199
post #128

Lots of folks in these comments seem to want to use this event to litigate wind vs. solar vs. gas vs. nuclear vs. coal, but it seems like, across the board, power generation facilities in Texas were simply unprepared to operate in such low temperatures. All of these technologies can and do work well in very cold climates.

> All of these technologies can and do work well in very cold climates. The technologies can work, but only if measures are taken to make them work that way, and those measures are expensive. Texas' grid, like most of the nation's grid, is optimized to keep prices low for consumers and profits steady for generators and distributors, and it's worked amazingly well at that. But "running lean" is great and everyone wins…

> a highly consequential long-tail event

Hip jargon aside, planning for low-probability events was invented a long time ago.

Unfortunately, so were politicians, who will operate within the parameters they are given. If you want real resilience, you want better governance.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#200

The Texas-only grid was definitely part of it, and should be a lesson to people who thought the lesson from Covid is "do more locally." No, having stronger, longer distance connections is what makes you more resilient, at least when there are local problems.

I'm not sure how true this is. There are DC ties that allow Texas to import from both the East and West interconnection, but power is scarce everywhere now. So even if their region was fully AC connected, all the other nearby regions were scrapping the bottom of the barrel as well.
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