Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#431

Post by hestipod » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

Lendal wrote: post #386

xrd wrote: post #195

Snowden's book really speaks to me on so many levels. As a hacker, as a boy growing up in the new age of the Internet. As a person who experienced 9/11 and never aligned with the direction it took the USA. As a person who questions my identity and the messages I get about identity on a daily basis. He will be remembered for a long time because of the actions he took, but if he had not done anything else, his book wou…

I used to agree with this but now that I've seen where this path leads, I think he should be given a fair trial and judged. Our government and the security of 350M US citizens cannot be held at the whim of a single hacker, no matter how right he believed himself to be. Our Congress has 535 members for precisely this reason, the president answers to Congress and is not a king, and even the Chief Justice does not rule…

He was not wrong. So many people define right and wrong by some system of made up rules and laws, and if someone breaks those rules or laws, even for right, people still say "they should be held accountable" as if the rule and law matter more than anything. The bad guys don't follow those rules and laws and exposing them for that, even if it violates said rules and laws, is not "wrong". It's brave and moral and right. If I was on that jury he would get a "not guilty" or jury nullification from me because despite what rules and laws he may have technically violated the system was wrong, not him. I don't care about idealistic excuses like "he should have....." because those things don't work as history proves over and over again. There are times the ends justify the means. Life is not a series of black and white rules or rule violations. The only wrong part about all of this is that they were spying on everyone to begin with, lied about it, and that nothing has been done about it since everyone was made aware. They have done a fantastic job of convincing the masses Snowden is the REAL bad guy. Shameful. If anyone insists on a trial it should be of the USG for its nefarious activities. Not the little guy for exposing them.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#432

Post by jakeogh » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:18 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #220

asveikau wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were partisan politics I don't think we would see the continuity that we did between Bush and Obama. I think it was clear and overt during the Bush era that there were some dubious claims thrown around about "we need this to prevent another 9/11", with "this" being vague, broad, varying with the particular speaker. It was disappointing to many when Obama embraced some of these conclusions.

Yeah the idea that the intelligence community pushed these stories doesn't hold up. If you look into the folks who were in the spotlight pushing "we need this to prevent another 9/11" they were mostly former military and some with intelligence connections... but the real connection was their political connections. Many outright stated the information they were provided to go on TV with came from politically associate…

FBI Agent Robert Wright: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vALc-oU3Hqg

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#433

Post by redisman » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:19 PM UTC

pennaMan wrote: post #258

KnMn wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, man. I completely disagree. I feel like he just talks and talks about whatever he wants to talk about with almost no regard for whether his technical language is being understood or if he's dominating the discussion or anything like that. I don't think I've seen him develop a natural rapport with anyone or even make a firm, memorable point in an interview. I'll always be grateful for his leaks but over 2.5 hours…

You'll love the John Carmack episode then :)

The Carmack episode was great but the follow-up questions I wanted to ask Carmack and what Joe Rogan actually follows-up was a bit disappointing.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#434

Post by strunz » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:19 PM UTC

saucoidev wrote: post #421

Lendal wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to agree with this but now that I've seen where this path leads, I think he should be given a fair trial and judged. Our government and the security of 350M US citizens cannot be held at the whim of a single hacker, no matter how right he believed himself to be. Our Congress has 535 members for precisely this reason, the president answers to Congress and is not a king, and even the Chief Justice does not rule…

He exposed illegal actions by the government, and as far as i know there hasn't been a trial for that, just a flurry of laws passed to justify what was done after the fact. What can you do, when the institution you should report illegal acts to, is the one perpetrating them?

Exactly, this is the whole reason whistleblower protections exist. It gives a lone wolf the ability to fight against the machines that are bigger than they could possibly fight themselves.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#435

Post by jakeogh » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:21 PM UTC

lern_too_spel wrote: post #301

InvaderFizz wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty that do. They end up making waves in the libertarian and conspiracy communities and are generally blacklisted by the mainstream press. The two communities above are receptive to messages about government overreach and corruption, the general public seems not to care much. I suspect this is largely because libertarians and conspiracy theorists (which do overlap to some extent) are already skeptical of…

> It always fascinated me that the discussion of the leaked Clinton emails conveniently focused on the speculative source and motivation, never on the content of the emails with valid DKIM signatures Because there was nothing in them that painted Clinton in a bad light. They were normal boring emails that were sensationalized in conspiracy blogs but recognized as normal boring emails by professional journalists.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/37543

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#436

Post by garmaine » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

biztos wrote: post #415

Lendal wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to agree with this but now that I've seen where this path leads, I think he should be given a fair trial and judged. Our government and the security of 350M US citizens cannot be held at the whim of a single hacker, no matter how right he believed himself to be. Our Congress has 535 members for precisely this reason, the president answers to Congress and is not a king, and even the Chief Justice does not rule…

Current POTUS has recently threatened a legally protected whistleblower with removal of protection, it wouldn't be crazy to call it a death threat. Previous POTUS wasn't any better disposed to Snowden. I'm not necessarily a fan, but I think it was a very rational choice on Snowden's part to choose "permanent exile and fear of assassination" over "trust the system."

It was a death threat. He literally said the whistleblower should be killed.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#437

Post by InInteraction » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

xrd wrote: post #195

Snowden's book really speaks to me on so many levels. As a hacker, as a boy growing up in the new age of the Internet. As a person who experienced 9/11 and never aligned with the direction it took the USA. As a person who questions my identity and the messages I get about identity on a daily basis. He will be remembered for a long time because of the actions he took, but if he had not done anything else, his book wou…

NSA took this direction long before 9/11 -- Qwest (US telecommunications carrier) was requested to participate in NSA wiretapping program more than six months before September 11, 2001. Qwest CEO Joe Nacchio refused to give customer data to the NSA... he spent 6 years in federal prison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8um6lImuWQ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#438

Post by redisman » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

reallymental wrote: post #16

andrew_ wrote: post #13

His podcasts are infinitely better than any amount of talking-head punditry available on the major news networks. I've not run across one yet that wasn't well-reasoned, patient, and interesting - even if I didn't agree with conclusions being made or the thought processes expressing them.

I agree with your first sentence, but not so much with your second. He's the best out there now as he's got the pick of his guests (the result of a forward feedback loop of being a good interviewer). But view/listen to enough of them and you'll learn to pick the gems from the drivel, like almost everything.

Each show has like 50% of just general Rogan filler. It's really noticable if you listen to many of them in a row. I only listen to the really interesting guests like Elon Musk, John Carmack since they're so outside of the entertainment/social media field that the talk stays pretty focused on what they've done.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#439

Post by hnbroseph » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

DaniloDias wrote: post #194

vfc1 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful, because his podcast is a bit of an echo chamber. The other day he set up a debate on nutrition where he covered the topic of heart disease, and he put a cardiologist (Dr. Khan) with 20 years of experience debating with an acupuncturist (Kris Kresser) on the causes of heart disease. And he kept interrupting the doctor and taking the acupuncturist side on the most absurd claims. He is also into things like…

>>Be careful, because his podcast is a bit of an echo chamber. Counterpoint: Be brave about hearing stupid arguments. They are a whetting stone for your own thoughts. It is not smart, courageous, healthy or prudent to prevent yourself from being exposed to bad ideas.

everyone has an expiration date. someone who wants to make the most of their time probably should not waste it on nonsense.

Re: Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video]

#440

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #224

0x445442 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're selectively choosing where you get your information which is the real crux of the problem; there is no "news" anymore, only opinions and narratives put forth for political and financial gain. The comment elsewhere in this thread about the failure of the 4th estate is the relevant one.

> there is no "news" anymore Yes there is, and there are facts and truth.

"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS." -- Leslie Moonves

News is what it is. Facts and truth may be found but not by turning on the TV. Journalists working by themselves and for themselves still exist. We have to seek them out; they don't get any airtime with billion dollar media conglomerates.

NBC News employs a Bush daughter, and previously employed a Clinton daughter in one of those no-show jobs that the mafia loves. A McCain daughter is at ABC news, but they make her appear on "The View" so that may not be such a great deal. The Vanderbilt scion figurehead at CNN is a former CIA recruit. ("Mr. Cooper, we feel your talents would be more suited to a slightly different role with our agency.") When retired admirals and generals appear on the shows as respected experts, their management roles and board membership at armaments manufacturers is not disclosed.