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What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

nytimes.com

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Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#431

Post by fjsolwmv »

explainplease wrote: post #135
Dylan16807 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parking spaces in dense areas already act as a huge subsidy toward cars, so I don't think electrical cost is a deal-breaker. Or you glue on half a parking meter to turn the electricity on and off.

> I don't think electrical cost is a deal-breaker. Do you have any numbers, or are you guessing?

It costs $1 to put 8kW (30miles) into a car, and takes about an hour (for a level 2 charger) so the cost of electricity is less than the land value (unsubsidized meter rate) of the parking space itself, in any urban area.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#432

Post by fjsolwmv »

pixl97 wrote: post #161
Tepix wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know you will be away for 3 hours, why not use a slow charger instead of the limited fast chargers (that are probably more expensive as well)?

Why does everything good in the world get ruined? Because some people are just dicks. Unless there are active fines for holding up the queue in fast chargers, selfish people will make it worse for everyone.

A multihead charger can move the charge to a different head every few minutes, and can apply quotas or QoS priority.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#433

Post by fjsolwmv »

Shinchy wrote: post #115
mikepavone wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets mentioned a lot, but I think the point is really over stated. First, there's a huge amount of room for growth in electric vehicle adoption even if we assume that EVs are a non-starter for people who park on the street at night. The problem is worth solving, but we're no where near the point in which it's the main obstacle to further adoption. Second, cars that are being used will generally spend a fair bit…

Let me put it this way, I looked at buying an Electric Car but I live in a house with no driveway so there is no way I can ever own one. I would never risk the idea of driving to a supermarket hoping there is a free charging port for my car, just in case there isn't any free - it's not like I can just queue up the car. It's a huge fundamental hurdle and one that until solved will stop me from ever buying an Electric…

My neighbor dug a little trench to run a cable to the street in front of their house.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#434

Post by fjsolwmv »

IanCal wrote: post #247
ahartmetz wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When you do need to do a big evacuation a Tesla sized battery can last longer than you can safely drive" This is plainly wrong. Let's say it's a Tesla Model S which has a real world range of about 400 km. That is about four hours of driving. I sometimes drive 600 km easily, with one longer break to eat and maybe a few shorters breaks to pee or just get out of the car and walk around a bit. Your other statements are…

The EU legal limit is > a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes after no more than 4 hours 30 minutes driving and > 9 hours in a day - this can be extended to 10 hours twice a week https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/eu-rules The range of a 100KWh model S on the page for the UK ranges from 319 miles at 70mph (four and a half hours) to 514 miles at 45mph (eleven and a half hours). At 100KWh and 3+ miles per KWh (…

Yep, on evacuation day, when you are sitting in stop and go traffic, EVs are a big win because they get much better mileage at low speeds.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#435

Post by lazyjones »

peterwwillis wrote: post #339
lazyjones wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Driving was the 12th leading cause of death, and 7th in terms of number of years of life lost, in 2011 Including buses, right? Or do they never crash? > Is it worth it to kill 36,000 people a year so that they can have the "freedom" of a particular "lifestyle"? Yes, because it comes with great utility as well. You could ask the same questions about smoking (in private), drinking alcohol, lack of exercise, flying in…

> Including buses, right? Or do they never crash? Oh, I forgot about all those buses constantly crashing. They account for 0.6% of all traffic accidents. > Yes, because it comes with great utility as well. A small portion of drivers need their vehicles for a utilitarian purpose. The vast majority use them simply as personal transportation. It's similar to guns. A very small amount of them are used for a utilitarian p…

> We have invented electric cars twice. Both times the market did not choose progress.

Please educate yourself about the history of automobiles and why gasoline powered cars were much more practical and won.

Progress is not whatever fits in your utopia or seems best in hindsight, it's whatever improves the current situation. Pollution was not an issue in the 20's and what seemed best then won on the market. It's not a difficult concept.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#436

Post by [deleted] »

squarefoot wrote: post #54
_greim_ wrote: post #15

> Drivers will have to shed their attachment to the sound, smell and feel of gas-powered engines. I for one will not feel the least bit sad when continuous, smooth acceleration becomes the norm, and lurchy, awkward automatic transmissions fade into distant memory. I'll probably feel slightly nostalgic about the sound and smell of fuel-burning cars someday, but it won't inform my buying choices in the slightest.

"I'll probably feel slightly nostalgic about the sound and smell of fuel-burning cars someday" I don't know about the smell, but once people realize how dangerous is a car you can't hear coming, they will start adding some sound, and what's better than a traditional car sound? The sound will be easily faked using samples from well known engines played according to the current speed by transducers under the car. There…

[deleted]

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#437

Post by tomohawk »

ahartmetz wrote: post #129
kuro68k wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am on my second Nissan Leaf and can tell you that your concerns are largely unfounded. Most charging is opportunistic, and when you do need to do a big evacuation a Tesla sized battery can last longer than you can safely drive. In fact in the EU legal limits on commercial drivers are already exceeded by battery tech. As for wearing out, taxi companies with leafs have over 200k on the packs and they are still good.…

"When you do need to do a big evacuation a Tesla sized battery can last longer than you can safely drive" This is plainly wrong. Let's say it's a Tesla Model S which has a real world range of about 400 km. That is about four hours of driving. I sometimes drive 600 km easily, with one longer break to eat and maybe a few shorters breaks to pee or just get out of the car and walk around a bit. Your other statements are…

Wow. A 6 or 7 year old car that is completely useless. A 3 hour charge time to go 65 miles. If it's highway driving - only 35 miles - unless there is a headwind.

Mind boggling.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#438

Post by RightMillennial »

slouch wrote: post #422
RightMillennial wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A problem is not everyone wants to wait half an hour for every charge on a long distance trip. If I'm driving 12 hours, I want to get to my destination with minimal interruption. Having to wait 30+ minutes for each of the 2+ refuelings would be a pain and add a considerable amount of time to the already lengthy trip. I'd avoid that pain point if that's the choice.

How many 12 hour trips do you take? I hear this so much from people who only take one trip a year that would cause this hardship.

I make about 4 trips like that a year. While it is certainly not a regular occurrence it is frequent enough that I would take it into consideration when looking at a vehicle. The point is not that I use the full range of my vehicle all of the time, but that I have the capability to due so. Don't get me wrong. I'm very interested in electric cars. However, the current ranges (which are close to being up to par), and especially the lack of infrastructure and long refueling times dissuades me from actually looking into purchasing one.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#439

Post by skookumchuck »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #243
skookumchuck wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody cares about the sound of auto transes. But a 4-on-the-floor V8, that's another matter entirely. See the movie Bullitt for proof. I'll get an electric car like everyone else. But I dream about having a '68 Mustang :-)

A movie may not be an accurate representation of reality. But, point taken.

I've driven enough of those cars to know that movie was pretty accurate in how the cars sounded and drove. Such depictions are sadly extremely rare.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#440

Post by twothamendment »

evgen wrote: post #430
twothamendment wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to fuel being portable, storage is important too. I can store extra fuel. When the power is out and the gas station can't pump - I don't care, I have a backup. I can put it in my truck, generator, etc.

And solar panels can both power your home and recharge your car. Indefinitely. What happens when you run out of extra fuel?

The same thing that happens when there isn't sun - yes I have enough winter, clouds and snow that solar isn't "worth it". I have a panel to see what I can get out of it, but I'd hate to rely on it. A Tesla battery is more likely to find its way into my home than my vehicles.

My real energy storage is wood because I can't run out of it. Batteries don't grow on trees, but trees do?

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