421–430 of 479 posts
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They are subsidizing the non-API use cases and overcharging on the API use cases.
No, almost everyone has been in agreement that they’re subsidizing subscriptions, but there have literally been dozens (hundreds?) of threads on HN in the past 12 months with people vehemently arguing that API prices are subsidized.
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I've gotten flagged for asking questions about tokens and tensors. That makes me believe it's not about safety, it's about protecting their turf. I cancelled my subscription - same fear about getting flagged too much leading to a ban.
They said they also block usage of Claude models to build ML models. Which is definitely protecting their turf, but also probably a little bit hiding their “RSI” abilities for competitive reasons. My theory is that a lot of “safety blocking” is actually WIP training of new business directions. Anthropic has started hiring biologists and has opened a preview of a “Claude code for bioinformatics”. I’m guessing they’re…
That's an interesting thought on the current "safety blocking" being a trial run for the topics that scare people (bio). You're more charitable about their motives than I am, but you might be right.
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I think Fable's dominance is overstated. It definitely has the lead, but quantifying what that lead actually is is really hard. I'm using GPT 5.6 Sol to do some shit that I personally would consider "crazy" - low level undocumented hardware driver alchemy, reverse engineering highly obfuscated code, even a bit of screwing around with a rendering engine in Vulkan, really just about the most complex tasks I can get any…
things that are alchemical are rarely alchemy. That is to say things are very fiddly but stick a room of monkeys on typewriters, a schizophrenic developer with HolyC and adderall or an LLM, persistence is the key to many of these things like drivers, extracting keys from vintage security domains, etc. Dropping into xdd to a human is a chore, not for an LLM.
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I've gotten flagged for asking questions about tokens and tensors. That makes me believe it's not about safety, it's about protecting their turf. I cancelled my subscription - same fear about getting flagged too much leading to a ban.
I agree. It’s flagged me on discussing fast GEMM implementations for large regressions, a discussion on theoretical physics math, a discussion on designing a type of RAG system. I’m super baffled as to what the safety instructions actually are other than “advanced anything” and even then their definition of advanced is a joke, I’m an idiot and my questions are almost laughable.
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AI-pilled obsession with "taste" is bordering on insanity It's just vibes
That's what they're always going to be, so not sure what would be "insane" about it. They literally feed on and emit natural language, and are put to work on informally defined, arbitrary tasks. When people figure out any reliable strategies to test and benchmark them, that's insane, and in the positive sense. This very same issue has been a thing for humans as well forever, and remains only very questionably solved…
OpenAI is making some really boneheaded moves these days. They're reacting instead of leading, basically. Cutting API prices 50% while millions of your paying subscribers have had their limits slashed and are all literally looking at the salivatingly-cheap chinese API prices availalbe on openrouter... Not only did OpenAI and all of their cash somehow MISS the opportunity to purchase OpenRouter ... Now they're giving…
That's some bonehead take. For very starter, neither the other AI companies nor the customers will trust OpenRouter if it's owned by OpenA. It'd be squeezed to death from both sides. The only reasonable way for OpenAI's investors to have a share of OpenRouter is to invest directly, not via OpenAI. > I calculated a 5.6 sol coding session the other day ... $680+ USD ... and it actually destroyed the codebase it was wor…
Not the OP, but I consider myself a skilled and heavy AI user, with multiple subscriptions in both platforms, plus OpenRouter.
A couple of weeks ago I gave 5.6 Sol a small/medium sized ticket to simplify part of the auth system. The ticket had a lot of details another Sol agent had collected during an exploratory session, and it was all vetted by Opus 5. I thought to myself that the implementation agent should have everything it needs. I still had it write a plan just in case, read the plan, made sure it matched the ticket, then clicked Approve and walked away.
I came back later that afternoon to a horror show. The agent had written 25,000+ LoC in the worktree. After 15 minutes of skimming through it, I realized that it had made the specced change, then convinced itself that it needed stronger verification, and over a series of compaction cycles ended up writing a static analysis harness so that it could prove that the change would be safe. Total bonkers.
Except, according to another Sol agent I showed the worktree to, the harness didn't actually do what the original agent claimed. The review agent said 98% of the worktree's code should be thrown away, and only the fix and its relevant unit and integration tests should be retained. I also asked Opus 5, and it theorized that 5.6 Sol must have gone through too many compaction cycles and lost track of its original goal.
This never happens to me with Claude models. Yes they write a lot of code and verbose comments, but I've never had a situation where a ticket that should take several hundred LoCs ended up with tens of thousands. When Claude overengineers something, I catch it during the planning phase, and it implements plans faithfully.
5.6 Sol is simply unreliable. It's too relentless and doesn't know when to stop. That's probably what caused the OP's $680 incident. I find it fascinating that people like it so much.
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If you said this in 2025 I would've 100% understood, but to be honest getting AI models to do a pretty good job on day-to-day ticket work has become so boring that we don't even bother using the top tier models and higher effort slots for that anymore. I personally wind up tweaking the results a lot and recursively having fresh agents review the diff, but that's just because I'm picky; in a lot of cases the first dif…
All non-trivial code terra has generated for me has had at least one serious bug in it. Typically caught by a review from myself or Sol. But I wouldn't trust lower tier models for end to end solutions.
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Both can be true simultaneously. American companies were comfortable with a high cost structure because it padded their revenue numbers. The government tried to block out competitors through import/export controls, and it ended up backfiring by creating more efficient competitors. Very similar to our competition with Japan in the 80s. We'll see if we give the AI labs the kinds of sweetheart protectionism that US car…
I don't think that kind of protectionism will work with a digital asset. It is much more difficult to erect barriers when there are no physical goods and transportation across geographic borders is instant and free.
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No, almost everyone has been in agreement that they’re subsidizing subscriptions, but there have literally been dozens (hundreds?) of threads on HN in the past 12 months with people vehemently arguing that API prices are subsidized.
Certainly not everyone. I find it far more likely that both subscriptions and API pricing are profitable in their own right. The fact that some people get great value out of their subscription (just like some people get great value out of their car insurance) doesn't mean it's subsidized.
I think what is going on here is that OpenAI are employing price differentiation to capture more of the market. The captive API customers are already there. There are bunch of potential customers that are price sensitive and are at openrouter. This move allows them to capture more of the market and increase profits (yes, they might be increasing profits at this level)
You don't just jump from model to model on openrouter because somebody slashed prices, though. People actually have to select and want to use Sol 5.6 in their routing.