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If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

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Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#421

Post by pixl97 »

shevy-java wrote: post #281

I think the article misses a bit the main focus. For instance: > My LG fridge started making weird sounds, so I tried to file a warranty claim, through a multi-step form with countless fields. It failed with a submission error at the very end. And I only found out because I looked at the JavaScript console. Has that JavaScript code been written by AI? It may be more likely that it was written by humans. Well, the des…

Heh, the support form failing want a bug, more like a feature. Look how much money they are saving not providing support. Also, the product is better than ever, nobody is returning them or needing them fixed!

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#422

Post by linzhangrun »

mancerayder wrote: post #277

> We’ve reached a point where an update to macOS — or to any app I rely on, really — is a source of dread rather than excitement. I now expect the new version to be worse. I actually relate to that. It used to be cool and exciting to update to see what new things are coming for free. I was just looking up what Fedora Workstation 45 might bring. Updates on phones, TV's, cars and non-Linux operating systems on PC's/lap…

As a Fedora user, I can say very clearly that Fedora is also very buggy...

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#424

Post by pixl97 »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #11

I've also noticed so many pieces of software becoming worse and worse, either with useless features (basically any new thing on Slack in the past year) or with a huge amount of large bugs, over the past year. It's glaringly obvious that poorly checked, AI-written, code is the culprit, I'm just wondering when companies will wake up. Nobody gives a flying fuck about resiliency, good practices, security or any of that n…

At the end of the day it has nothing to do with AI. People have been bitching about bugs in it for a long time. It's companies that give zero shits about releasing bugs.

This comes back to the users. As long as they keep buying the shit software why spend money on QA.

I mean, you're the problem. Did you stop using slack? Are they taking losses because of it? If not, why change?

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#425

Post by ValentineC »

inigyou wrote: post #189
dwedge wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last year I bought a book from Amazon for over $100 and they sent the wrong book. I contacted Amazon support, they said they will refund it, I don't need to send it back (throw it away if I want), and also give me a $20 credit for the inconvenience. A month later, no refund. I contacted them again, they said unless the book is sent back, no refund. I told them about the previous conversation and they said that the CS…

FYI you can sue them in small claims for this. This is one of the languages that companies really listen to. You would have to have actually thrown the book out in good faith, though, or commit perjury. Remember the airline LLM support bot and the bereavement fare?

Suing them could also result in one getting banned from Amazon for good.

I wonder if there's a way the law could make it so companies can't retaliate against people who seeking redress for problems they caused.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#426

Post by marcosdumay »

zem wrote: post #308
hamandcheese wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > We’ve reached a point where an update to macOS — or to any app I rely on, really — is a source of dread rather than excitement. I now expect the new version to be worse. You know what software doesn't fill me with dread to update? FOSS. Proprietary software isn't built for users anymore. But (some) FOSS still is.

> You know what software doesn't fill me with dread to update? FOSS. speak for your clearly non-pulseaudio-using self (:

Good thing that Debian pushed that thing into "non-core compatibility tools" status. It and NVidia drivers were always the things that made upgrading risky.

Relatedly, systemd stopped breaking a while ago. Either distros stopped keeping it up-to-date or people can learn.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#427

Post by inigyou »

galleywest200 wrote: post #407
inigyou wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Factorio or Minecraft change things every update.

At least Minecraft is generally additive as opposed to mucking up the previously working mechanics. (This of course is excluding things like the big “Flattening” of data structures that happened around 1.13 or so)

The post-Microsoft meta is that glitches are valid game mechanics. TNT duping has been in the game longer than Notch controlled the game. But some other glitches get fixed.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#429

Post by Silhouette »

slopinthebag wrote: post #411
afavour wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is to gut your product org, replace management with leading engineers, and hire some of your most fanatic users. It’s not surprising that this sentiment is popular on a message board filled with engineers but I’m not so convinced by it. Nor do I think the current state of tech companies is acceptable, to be clear. But there needs to be some level of management outside of the engineers themselves. A lot…

Yeah I hate that you’re right. Blender is an example of OSS software which is actually a joy to use and they have product designers. But I think there is a massive gap between good and bad product people. No product person would be better than bad ones, but for truly great software you probably want some good ones. That being said lots of good OSS exists purely built by engineers so I think it’s really the case that…

Some developers also take an active interest in the design and feature set of the product they're developing. IME those developers can often produce good results once a general direction is set if they have access to real users to collect feedback. But it's important to recognise that these are essentially two completely distinct skill sets and mindsets and it just happens that some people have both.

It's not really any different to the old arguments when continuing a career beyond senior dev level meant moving into management but there was no guarantee that just because someone had been a competent developer they would also be any good at managing anything. Some were and produced great results - in some cases informed by their understanding as former developers about what would be possible and what it would realistically cost - but in other cases the Peter Principle hit early.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#430

Post by rdedev »

alphazard wrote: post #388

The answer, of course, is that the taste-making apparatus inside the typical tech company is now entirely imposters (non-technical, non-power-users), who continue to LARP as visionaries. The people who notice broken or degraded behavior (devs and power users) and conceive of good designs are not in charge of what goes into the product. So you shouldn't expect it to get better, only to continuously change so that the…

> The solution is to gut your product org, replace management with leading engineers, and hire some of your most fanatic users. They don't need to do anything other than give their opinions, and use the product every day. Put them in a room with your top engineers, and the software will mysteriously get better.

This will just lead to massive selection bias. If all you care about are power users go for it. Otherwise you end up with a complicated system that is going to put off new users.

You can even have different power users who likes different parts of the software. Now it's totally possible to end up with extensive subsystems that don't really gel with each other

My anecdote for this is the the recentish redesign of Musescore. Tantacrul, the ux designer/product manager for Musescore has an hour long video on how he redesigned the interface and UX of the software. He is also a musician so you can call him a power users if you want but that was not the users he had in mind when redesigning the UX

https://youtu.be/Qct6LKbneKQ

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