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What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

psychologytoday.com

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Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#421

Post by jelsisi »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #157
emmelaich wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! Is it possible that you're just eating less of whatever triggers the autoimmune symptoms?

No, if that’s all it was then ME/CFS would be a cake walk and it isn’t. I have such a crazy restrictive diet and have had for a long time that one of my issues was being kicked out of doctor's offices for looking too healthy. The diet is necessary but not sufficient.

I'm in the same boat! I look very healthy, I'm young and most of my bloodwork is great but I have many autoimmune symptoms. I started on semaglutide 1 week ago and your comment brings me hope.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#422

Post by pandaman »

chrisco255 wrote: post #229
pandaman wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if there are zero effects other than the advertised weight reduction, one downside is obvious from the comments here - some people will stop exercising. While exercise has many positive effects, which I'd argue are more important than the weight loss, the latter is the primary reason many people exercise and likely to stop when given the weight loss by other means.

Most people are achieving weight loss by dietary changes. It takes a massive amount of exercise to significantly alter your calorie balance. Definitely good for you either way but most people who exercise also want to be toned or muscular.

Define "massive". People do successfully and reliably get in shape through exercise. Aerobic exercise that gets HR up for an hour or more will significantly alter your calorie balance. I agree that more people don't go through exercise rote though.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#423

Post by ben_w »

faangguyindia wrote: post #147
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> evidence of where their fat stores came from? Yes. Specifically, how basal metabolism is not a consciously-controlled rate that modifies itself against diet and exercise to the point that in some people with serious metabolic syndrome it may be impossible for them to lose weight through diet and exercise without suffering nutritional shortfalls. Also, the clinical evidence around what works for people losing weight…

>Yes. Specifically, how basal metabolism is not a consciously-controlled rate that modifies itself against diet and exercise to the point that in some people with serious metabolic syndrome it may be impossible for them to lose weight through diet and exercise without suffering nutritional shortfalls. The average person does not understand how weight loss works; many people do not know the concept of maintenance calo…

> Simply putting them on drugs for life isn't a solution.

It literally is "a" solution.

The questions should be: is it the best solution that currently exists? And is it the best that can exist?

It may be that widespread availability of weight loss drugs that actually work ends the economic incentives to promote foods which themselves promote over-eating.

Or it may be that it triggers an arms race with food manufacturers seeking out things that override the weight loss drugs.

Or there may be negative side-effects we have yet to learn about, like there have been for so many other things that previously seemed amazing or miraculous.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#424

Post by ethbr1 »

mycall wrote: post #265
ceejayoz wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you could intentionally eat good food? I've heard it widely described as reducing mental noise around food.

People can get fat by eating too much healthy food.

> People can get fat by eating too much healthy food.

It's a lot harder, as many of the comments mentioned, because of caloric density and lack of appetite hacks (sugar, salt).

A can of Mountain Dew is 170 kcal + 46g of sugar.

A navel orange is ~75 kcal + 13g of sugar + 3.2g of fiber + 1.25g of protein.

So take someone from Appalachia with a 4 can / day habit (modest), and that's ~10-12 oranges. That's a lot of oranges to not get sick of eating.

Which is where I think the sugar + salt difference comes in.

It's far easier to overload on the same food when it's stuffed with these appetite attractants than a caloric equivalent of healthy food, because the health food will taste more similar (read: like itself), which will eventually get boring.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#425

Post by spicyusername »

wpm wrote: post #21
joshuamcginnis wrote: post #16

Studies show almost all subjects regained the weight and reversed gains within 2 years. This means underlying issues (e.g., food addiction) aren't being addressed. Short of changing habits, the only maintenance solution is lifelong drug use and that doesn't sit well with me.

Why not? People take depression meds, blood pressure meds, all kinds of meds for their whole life. I'll be on omeprazole for reflux my whole life. It doesn't solve the underlying problem of my gut being prone to overpumping acid into my stomach. So omeprazole is problematic? The underlying issue is being treated, it's treated by taking the drug. It works. It's doing its job. I'd be curious as to how you came to this…

Because it's pretty likely some of these have negative long term effects. And some of those long-term effects are probably pretty serious.

Many people taking these kind of drugs are gambling with their well being. No doubt that in many cases that gamble is worth it.

But issues that can be solved with non-pharmaceutical solutions, such as with weight loss and lifestyle changes, are really better solved that way if possible. There's no risk of longterm effects and it helps foster a larger culture of healthy living in society generally, reducing the lilihood of the problem in the general population.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#426

Post by cindyllm »

ethbr1 wrote: post #424
mycall wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can get fat by eating too much healthy food.

> People can get fat by eating too much healthy food. It's a lot harder, as many of the comments mentioned, because of caloric density and lack of appetite hacks (sugar, salt). A can of Mountain Dew is 170 kcal + 46g of sugar. A navel orange is ~75 kcal + 13g of sugar + 3.2g of fiber + 1.25g of protein. So take someone from Appalachia with a 4 can / day habit (modest), and that's ~10-12 oranges. That's a lot of orang…

[dead]

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#427

Post by jona-f »

theshrike79 wrote: post #402
jona-f wrote: post #283

The "gut-brain axis" is mostly bullshit invented to cope with the fact that doctors have sent patients to shrinks for decades with real sicknesses. Everybody knows you feel bad when your digestive is out of balance. It's the same english word for "I'm sick" and "I feel sick" since forever. No magical newly found "gut-brain axis" needed. Eating junk food, especially sweetened food is a drug. You can do a withdrawal an…

But the drug feeds the flora in your gut, which tells your brain to crave more of it. Like if you completely cut off sugary foods for 2-4 weeks you won't crave them as much. Why? The gut flora that feeds off sugar specifically dies off and can't send as strong signals to your brain. Thus: gut-brain axis. It's a thing and will become more important when we study it more. Your brain isn't as much in control as you thin…

Your explanation doesn't seem plausible to me. If your stomach and small intestine is working properly, the bulk of the bacteria shouldn't see much sugar. Afaik the mechanisms how the intestines regulate the gut flora are not well understood. At least not to the point where there are any working treatment for the many widespread digestive problems. There is some slow progress around fecal transplant research.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#428

Post by ethbr1 »

theshrike79 wrote: post #389
faangguyindia wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

People are different. Weird, right? I have a friend who was literally ordered, by a doctor, to eat as much fat as they could because they were too skinny. They're the type of person for whom food is 100% fuel and they can just stop mid-burger and not eat the second half because "they don't feel like it". I'm not like that. Leaving half a burger that I paid for on the plate is something I've never done or even conside…

Same. College nutritionist: "I'm going to give you the opposite advice of everyone else. If you can add butter to something, do it."

Then add in a fast metabolism. Until middle age, I literally couldn't eat enough food that I remotely enjoyed to hit target weight for my height.

I guess the easiest way to describe my subjective experience is that the "You're hungry, eat" audio channel is turned waaay down in my brain, to the extent that anything moderately attention-capturing overrides it (a project, reading, hiking, tv, etc).

I'll feel the physical and psychological symptoms of hunger (body feels cold, irritable, low energy) before I'll feel the signal to eat.

I'd be fascinated to get my gut biome sequenced + see my natural GLP-1 levels, as I've always been like this.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#429

Post by lotsofpulp »

Bombthecat wrote: post #372
mycall wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can get fat by eating too much healthy food.

Wasn't there just a study, that many fat kids are fat because of fruit juices? Healthy in a way, but surprisingly a lot of sugar ( either added or from the fruits)

Fruit juices are not healthy in any way, precisely because of the sugar density and lack of fiber which leads to easy overconsumption.

https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/139/6/e20170...

>Pediatricians should support policies that seek to reduce the consumption of fruit juice and promote the consumption of whole fruit by toddlers and young children already exposed to juices.

Re: What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis

#430

Post by JumpCrisscross »

shlant wrote: post #346
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> almost all subjects regained the weight and reversed gains within 2 years Source? I thought it was 2/3rds of the weight regained, which is still a substantial long-term loss.

supposedly that comes mostly from observational studies whereas RCT's seem to show that at some point full regain will probably happen (although can take 1-2 years). The Observational studies don't seem to control for people stopping GLP-1's but still trying other drugs/weight loss methods which is where the discrepancy from RCT's seems to be.

> supposedly that comes mostly from observational studies whereas RCT's seem to show that at some point full regain will probably happen

Do you have one you’d recommend reading?

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