A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown • Hacker News Board

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#421

Post by Loquebantur » Tue, Jun 16, 2026, 4:43 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #390

Loquebantur wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your simplistic take is fundamentally wrong. It would take someone in the bottom 99% of the world's population more than 1,500 years to match the personal lifetime carbon footprint of a billionaire. People in the top 1% can be attributed with 25% of emissions when you take their investments into account also. But most importantly, they are the ones who actually "steer the boat". They are responsible for the utter lac…

In the event that it helps: telling people that they're wrong repeatedly is not a very effective way to get your point across.

It certainly doesn't help them, but it does help others reading the comment chain.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#422

Post by Loquebantur » Tue, Jun 16, 2026, 4:51 PM UTC

vladms wrote: post #415

Loquebantur wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your simplistic take is fundamentally wrong. It would take someone in the bottom 99% of the world's population more than 1,500 years to match the personal lifetime carbon footprint of a billionaire. People in the top 1% can be attributed with 25% of emissions when you take their investments into account also. But most importantly, they are the ones who actually "steer the boat". They are responsible for the utter lac…

> Notice the utter absurdity of asking the bottom 99% of humanity to take responsibility for what they have absolutely no control over. I notice the absurdity of you suggesting you have no responsibility. It is a matter of how you choose the percentage. You choose 99%. If you would have said 50%, than whoops, suddenly you would include yourself in the responsible part. I claim that most rich people (western countries…

You consistently try to re-frame the matter in a factually incorrect way.

While average individuals do have responsibility, theirs is many orders of magnitude smaller. Not only from their personal impact being comparatively minuscule, but because their objective possibilities to make substantial changes is negligible.

It's not "a matter of how you choose the percentage": the distribution is as it is, a "hockey stick" shape. The numbers just help to understand that.

Western people are far from being uniform in their wealth. While generally certainly substantially richer than other parts of the world, their societies nonetheless are wildly uneven in their wealth-distribution. You might want to look at actual data on the subject, your intuition is way off.

You're right on principle in that collective action is needed. But the reality of the matter is, collective action in western societies is captured by the rich. They control the media, the purse and the government effectively.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#423

Post by budsniffer952 » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 9:41 AM UTC

dalyons wrote: post #281

budsniffer952 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coal technology is cheap and wide spread. PV technology is not, yet.

Huh? Solar is widely acknowledged to be significantly cheaper than building new coal. And it is everywhere, you can just buy containers of it and have it delivered anywhere in the world.

Yes. You can just buy containers of PV equipment from China and have it delivered anywhere in the world. Until they decide not to sell it to you, or they decide to stop subsidizing it. Or we go to war with them. Then you're gonna wish you had built those coal plants.

Have you paid attention to anything since 2020? Are you paying attention to anything now?

Suggesting PV is "cheaper" because of the per-watt cost to install it misses so much reality it's hard to take seriously. We live in the now, not some idealized future state. We need energy NOW. Do you think solar cells are immune to supply and demand? And that the economics will not be affected by a global shift?

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#424

Post by budsniffer952 » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 9:43 AM UTC

brewdad wrote: post #229

budsniffer952 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same can't be said about USA under current administration. The reason half the population won't take climate alarmists seriously are statements like this. Saying the West, generally, or the US, specifically "aren't doing anything" is ridiculous. https://ourworldindata.org/profile/co2/united-states

That chart conveniently ends at the end of the Biden Administration.

Yes. It "conveniently" stops after showing 50 years of declining per captita carbon footprint. The last 4 years are what matter. Classic hacker News take. This is why you will continue to lose.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#425

Post by brimwats » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:53 PM UTC

criticalfault wrote: post #233

camgunz wrote: post #4

I really think people are sleeping on the AMOC. The first season there isn't European wine/cheese/olives because of climate change is the first season European farmers probably literally declare war on their governments, to say nothing of the fact that almost no European homes can handle this level of cold. And for some perspective, this is only one of many other huge changes that huge populations will react violentl…

what is 'this level of cold' exactly?

-20°C or more winters

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#426

Post by RickJWagner » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 7:40 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #332

RickJWagner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your opinion, which list is the most credible? ( I.e. do you have a web link that shows a list of predictions you consider highly credible ? )

Sea level rise is a key problem for New Zealand - we have a lot of coast. At beaches there are poles showing predicted sea levels at various time points. There are lots of sites that show various predictions for sea level rises for NZ, showing predictions and reality. Eg: https://www.sealevel.nz/Auckland.html

Thanks for that— the poles sound like a great idea.

Off topic, I love a New Zealand podcast called “Backyard Bluegrass”. The host is a walking encyclopedia of roots music, and he’s got great presentation skills.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#427

Post by coryrc » Thu, Jun 18, 2026, 6:41 AM UTC

budsniffer952 wrote: post #423

dalyons wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Solar is widely acknowledged to be significantly cheaper than building new coal. And it is everywhere, you can just buy containers of it and have it delivered anywhere in the world.

Yes. You can just buy containers of PV equipment from China and have it delivered anywhere in the world. Until they decide not to sell it to you, or they decide to stop subsidizing it. Or we go to war with them. Then you're gonna wish you had built those coal plants. Have you paid attention to anything since 2020? Are you paying attention to anything now? Suggesting PV is "cheaper" because of the per-watt cost to ins…

PV panels can't be switched off remotely because China doesn't like you. Once within your country's borders, they are yours.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#428

Post by cameldrv » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 5:48 AM UTC

graemep wrote: post #352

rsynnott wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Never actually heard of rivers catching fire? This is the most famous example, though there have been a few of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River > Has acid rain been solved globally? Not entirely, but largely.

On the rivers catching fire. Wow! I think I may have heard of it as a freak event (e.g. an oil spill) but the same the same river catching fire 14 times is not something i realised happened.

The general environment in the 60s and 70s was extremely dirty. Every once in a while when I’m out with my kids, a classic car will roll by and I’ll admire it, but then my kids will hold their noses at the awful exhaust smell. That used to be every car.

It used to be that almost every river was unsafe to swim in.

It’s possible to fix environmental problems. It just requires the will.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#429

Post by snovv_crash » Sat, Jun 20, 2026, 9:37 AM UTC

budsniffer952 wrote: post #423

dalyons wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Solar is widely acknowledged to be significantly cheaper than building new coal. And it is everywhere, you can just buy containers of it and have it delivered anywhere in the world.

Yes. You can just buy containers of PV equipment from China and have it delivered anywhere in the world. Until they decide not to sell it to you, or they decide to stop subsidizing it. Or we go to war with them. Then you're gonna wish you had built those coal plants. Have you paid attention to anything since 2020? Are you paying attention to anything now? Suggesting PV is "cheaper" because of the per-watt cost to ins…

PV can't be switched off once sold, coal can stop being delivered. Coal is the one that brings centralisation and dependency on external parties, unless you happen to live somewhere with large coal deposits, and even in that case you get all the health problems of putting radioactive soot into the air.