Why not anything that has a battery? Why just cellphones?
The regulation does cover everything that uses batteries.
Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027
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Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027
#422Headline is misleading as the loopholes written into the regulation will likely end up exempting many/most phones
Didn't they remove many of the exemptions in the final, adopted bill?
Not really… the rules were heavily influenced by big tech in a way that basically exempts many devices. For example iPhone 15 onwards already meets the defined standard and thus doesn’t need a user replaceable battery.
So the headline is misleading. Removable batteries aren’t mandatory. They’re only mandatory if the battery fails to meet certain performance standards.
Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027
#423Earlier quoted context omitted.
Last time this was discussed, it was stated that the text exempting based on cycle counts was removed from the final, adopted version. Is that incorrect?
The batteries regulation[1] doesn't contain such an exemption. The legal argument that iPhones may be exempt goes like this: - The batteries regulation is a general regulation and article 11 specifically says the following: > This paragraph shall be without prejudice to any specific provisions ensuring a higher level of protection of the environment and human health relating to the removability and replaceability of…
I can strongly state that it is 100% possible to do ip67 with removable batteries in the sense people general mean.
That said, I am afraid how one can play with the definition of removable. Everything is removable given enough force.
Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027
#424Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lots of advantages, but one major downside: you can't pop the empty battery, put a new one and keep working. There's a reason professional devices (e.g. cameras) still have replaceable batteries.
The people who need this feature should go buy one of the phone models with replaceable batteries. Reading the comments here, it's obvious that the replaceable battery fans can't even agree on what they want. One commenter wants the back covered in tens of screws for waterproofing. Other commenters want the battery quickly replaceable so they can do hot swaps without missing a beat. Some people are sharing links to p…
too many CS majors and not enough mechanical engineers on this forum
Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027
#426This should be for the market to decide, not EU bureaucrats. If I want a thicker, clunkier, less waterproof phone with a user-replaceable battery, I can already buy a Fairphone or a Samsung Galaxy XCover6 Pro, or whatever. The reason people buy iPhones and flagship Samsung phones is they want the benefits that come from a design that doesn't have to make sacrifices to accomodate a user-replaceable battery.
Do you still believe in free markets? What other things? Santa? The Easter Bunny?
They're not real you know.
Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027
#427Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If people wanted removable batteries in their phones, they would buy them a lot. They don't. This argument gets thrown about every time companies make anti-consumer changes, and it completely ignores the information asymmetry and other dynamics at play. When I go to the store to buy a new phone, where does it list on the box how repairable the device is? Where does it show how expensive the repair will be? If I'm l…
None of that really matters, though. Most people are not repairing anything they own. It is cheaper to replace. That may be good or bad, I do not know.
I don't have the evidence to say either way, but I do know that at least my city has a lot of cellphone repair businesses, including mall kiosks. Presumably they have enough clientele to keep them going which suggests a lot of people are repairing their phones.
Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027
#428Does this need a law? Most phones have replaceable battery.
> Easy replacement: Batteries must be replaceable using standard tools (e.g., screwdrivers).
> No barriers: The use of adhesives that can only be removed with heat or solvents is prohibited.
> Tools: If a special tool is required for replacement, the manufacturer must provide it free of charge.
> Spare parts guarantee: Replacement batteries must be available to end users at a reasonable price for at least 5 years.
When it comes to most phones I've seen...
Easy replacement: Currently, special tools are needed to heat the glue holding on the screen, picks to pry it up, and then there are various ways to release the glue holding in the battery.
No barriers: Currently, there are adhesives used for both the screen and battery. Depending on the phone this may require a solvent, heat, or electrical release... maybe a combination of these.
Tools: Currently, tools are not provided with the phone and kits need to be purchased in addition to the battery to complete the repair.
Spare parts guarantee: I think this is very hit and miss based on the manufacturer, but I suspect most replacement batteries people are buying are not coming from the OEM.
Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027
#429Earlier quoted context omitted.
> has to be replaced free of charge I assume you mean the battery would have to be replaced free of charge. But what if I don't want to hand over a computer full of my personal data to a corporation with no oversight of how it will be handled? What if I can't afford to part with that computer? I would be stuck with having to replace that battery on my own since I don't want to risk giving physical access to my comput…
> hand over a computer full of my personal data to a corporation I'm equally paranoid, so I back up and wipe any device I hand in for repair. > What if I can't afford to part with that computer? No perfect answer for this, but I've always kept my last phone in a drawer in case my current phone breaks. It's saved me a couple of times. Maybe not everything works, but basic calls and texts always have, and I can use a b…
Without sufficient technical information on how the computer works and without root access, we can't be certain a "wipe" will actually wipe everything.
For malware that could be inserted in a targeted manner, even with desktop computers we don't have access the every firmware of every part.
When we're talking about mobile "phones", we usually have an interface that tells us "sure, it's wiped", but is it? Without full root to every part of it, can you be certain that it is? When you press "wipe" on an iPhone or a closed Android flagship (or whatever the UI is), what happens exactly on the filesystem that you can't even access fully?
Telling people to hand over their devices willy-nilly is far from "good". We shouldn't settle for this. The hardware companies can ship us the tools to replace the battery ourselves. Maybe not "ourselves" - my aunt can ask me to do it for her if she can't do it on her own. But she trusts me more than she does people she's never seen ever. If the tools are expensive, we can ship them back. There are many options so we should discuss them.
Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027
#430Earlier quoted context omitted.
IP68, replaceable battery, phone jack, 5G: https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover6_pro-11600.php
And all of the commenters complaining they would never buy this phone is great proof that the removable battery movement is DOA. These phones exist. Companies have been producing them intermittently. When they do, few people buy them and there are always complaints that it's too big, too ugly, not fast enough, or something else. The vocal minority demanding this feature but refusing to buy phones with the feature bel…
I always felt the issue with removable batteries was they had a smaller capacity and would run out of life faster - so the need to be able to replace a battery if you wanted your phone to last more than a few years was important.
Now, with much higher capacity batteries that work better and are more efficient at handling all the demanding displays, high end gpu's and now AI tasks running the background? There's really no need to have removable batteries any more.
Sure, you're going to get a few lemons here and there, but for the most part, batteries these days have no problem lasting the 4-5 years that you need them. You still see three or four year old iphones on ebay with 80-85% battery being sold like hot cakes.