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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#421

Post by jandrewrogers »

dalyons wrote: post #331
EdwardDiego wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love an off-road capable electric 4WD (because think about how amazing having computer controlled precision torque applied to wheels individually would be for getting out of a tricky situation). Especially if you could buy some kind of field charging kit - maybe something you could power off a wood fire or flexible solar panels that you could stow. I imagine that's not realistic at the moment, but a boy can dream…

Isn’t that the rivian R1? Incredibly capable off-road. One of a small number of stock model cars to complete the Rubicon trail

The Rivian has pretty limited range. The Scout looks promising though.

People out in the ranch country, oil patch, some mining areas, etc often want a reliable 600-ish miles unloaded. That’s why extended fuel tanks are a common option. Even without an extended fuel tank, you can often achieve that with an ICE and a jerry can.

EVs have great potential as 4WD off-road vehicles. In a lot of ways they are more naturally suited to it. Their main weakness is range and loiter time. In many contexts it will be days before you’ll be able to get to a charging point.

The killer feature of ICE in this context is the tremendous range and simplicity of extending range if you need more. Fuel is very compact, easy to bring with you, and available from other vehicles if you run short. An EV that can augment its range indefinitely with fuel is probably the sweet spot.

I think we’ll get there relatively soon.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#422

Post by dzhiurgis »

hirvi74 wrote: post #249
class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

> "tow your expensive toy somewhere which ev's suck at currently" Do EVs suck at towing because of battery life? I thought electric engines were often superior to comparable internal combustion engines regarding torque.

Charging infrastructure is what sucks. Yes range goes half, but that isn't much of a problem if you tow once a month and there's tons of stations around. If not, ur screwed.

Charging infrastructure was always the key for EVs and it's still relatively behind.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#423

Post by vel0city »

sroerick wrote: post #309
bryanlarsen wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprising, since Asians & Europeans get lots of work done without using monster American trucks. They use vans, pickups with drop sides, trailers, et cetera.

The closest big city to me is 150 miles away. I don't know anything about how general contracting is done in mainland China, (I bet they use trucks!) but other than that I'm really not sure any other Asian or European countries are facing the same logistical hurdles as Americans.

Imagine thinking vans can't travel 150 miles. Wild.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#424

Post by SoftTalker »

NathanielK wrote: post #391
SoftTalker wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, a truck can be used like a car. But a car cannot be used like a truck. If you need to haul 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall, dimensional lumber, piping, ladders, etc a truck (or work van) is pretty much it. If I could only afford one car it would be a truck.

The old Dodge Grand Caravan with the fold flat sheets fits 4x8 sheets inside. The built in roofrack is also very ergonomic for ladders, canoes, etc. We have pickups and the minivan and I often prefer to haul with the van. Better fuel efficiency and lower load floor are nice.

Yeah minivans can be quite useful. A bit of a PITA to fold or remove seats, depending on the model, and typically can't tow much or really carry much weight but for the occasional large item they can work.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#425

Post by vel0city »

eucyclos wrote: post #303
harpiaharpyja wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of those people. What is a work truck used for?

I saw (and rode in) a lot of them in Alberta (Canada's Texas). Typical day for a work truck: -owner starts you up from the hotel parking lot -3-5 guys get in, you get your morning coffee via a drive through -You pick up a 'slip tank' of diesel (think a metal box with its own fuel pump that sits in the bed and holds about a ton of liquid when full). You might fill up your own tank at the same time, typically on the em…

Yes this is why every other driveway in the zero lot lines of DFW need 1-2 pickup trucks. Totally.

This is way more extreme of usage than 99.99% of trucks made will ever see.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#426

Post by seanmcdirmid »

qingcharles wrote: post #395
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90% of F-150s are daily driver grocery-getters. That was the target for the Lightning, not truck stuff.

I live in an area that has probably >100% pick-up ownership per adult male. I've noticed that these people will not go to the grocery store on days when the weather is inclement due to the chance of the groceries getting wet. Seems like a bad vehicle for grocery runs.

When I was a kid, my dad owned a pickup truck in Mississippi, and there seem to be tons of ways of avoiding getting the groceries wet, a bed-width toolbox behind the cab was the simplest way (and this was way before extended cabs were a thing).

If you are living in such an area where they can't even figure that kind of thing out, it sounds like there might be something in the water.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#427

Post by seltzered_ »

SoftTalker wrote: post #361
inasio wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My electrician drives an electric F-150, it's impressive how useful it is for him. The frunk carries a big box of tools, there's tons of outlets to charge his power tool batteries, he can even run a small welder

Do they sell them in "work truck" trim? (Bench seat, vinyl upholstery, rubber floor, minimal options)?

The F-150 Lightning Pro trim is the closest thing to this, and aside from the first year generally has only sold to fleets.

Theres also the Chevy Silverado EV WT trim which is a similar base model trim, but with the huge heavy battery its paired with it's still an expensive truck.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#428

Post by MobiusHorizons »

godelski wrote: post #272
rsync wrote: post #233

We don't want your electric car ... we want your car, but electric . We want an electric F150 or an electric Suburban or v90 wagon or whatever. But instead we get e-initiative i-mobiles. We get TRON-cars. We get iModels. There is a reason for this: The incumbent auto makers understand fully that the ICE version of whatever model they electrify will suffer enormously. They believe that they can somehow retain all of t…

I really miss all the short trucks. For a long time I had a F150 supercab (made in the 90's) and while it was a great truck it was just excessive for 99% of what I used the vehicle for. That includes the vast majority of times I used it to haul and tow! I always envied my friend's smaller truck. Over a decade I think my truck was the better vehicle in only a handful of situations. (Far better to rent one for the day…

I don't actually think people are driving around with high beams on. Modern LED headlights are just brighter, and cars are higher up than they used to be, meaning older lower cars, especially sedans are just in the path of regular beams. I actually yelled at someone once to turn off their high beams because I was so convinced that's what it was. turns out, they just drive a tesla, which just have blinding lights. I guess there are also probably people with high beams, but most of the ones that are terrible aren't high beams, they are just modern.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#429

Post by protocolture »

class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

The electric LDV and GWM utes are meant to be pretty great. I reckon they will take over everywhere else and then come for the US with a US specific model.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#430

Post by ericd »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #166
nospice wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The price isn't right for small businesses. These trucks are quite expensive So are RAM trucks and I don't think they're hurting for customers. I think there are two fundamental issues. One is that pickups are a weirdly-politicized lifestyle choice in the US - i.e., if you're progressive, you're supposed to hate them and see them as the symbol of the gun-totting macho redneck culture, and if you're conservative, yo…

The limited range and inability to refuel quickly and easily in the middle of nowhere remains a critical deficiency for EV trucks in many parts of the US. Range is something you have to be conscious of even with ICE trucks in some areas even though they have better and more reliable range. There are places where I'd start thinking about fuel once I hit half a tank. Getting caught out in the middle of nowhere with a d…

Seems like EV trucks need the ability to do the equivalent of siphoning gas, or carrying some Jerry cans.
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