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America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

cnn.com

421–430 of 660 posts

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#421
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think CS grads would be good candidates for a high stress job that requires excellent communication skills?

Ability to rapidly process information and react to changes. Communication is a learned skill. Ability to handle stress and thrive under pressure is the key.

We should have plenty of people that play video games.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#422

Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…

There's a class action of about 900 people who were rejected based on the FAA prioritizing diversity in ATC hiring. That would be a good place to start hiring new people.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how that page is from the AMA, the organization that is largely responsible for pushing Congress to institute the residency caps in the first place because they feared too many physicians would drive down existing physician's incomes.

Crazy how they present as a guild but behave like a cartel.

Hmm, guilds were often the institution that controlled a profession, while cartels are usually voluntarily joined. Is that really what you meant?

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#424
post #201

Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…

Everything you have listed above could be solved with money. Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Sounds like you need more applicants? Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. The training and onboarding is incredibly long? Sounds like a doctor? Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other s…

i dont think offering more compensation solves the problem.

the people you might want mignt

1. always have a better option elsewhere and if your raise the offer, competitors will offer something even higher instead, beyond the pittances the government is willing to spend 2. never be willing to take on the job as specified - huge responsibility and risk of killing people, with long hours and no recognition 3. never finds out that the pay is high - nobody talks about it, or sells its existence as an option. 4. doesnt have a parent in the business to teach them what to do

raising the payment seems to fail a lot, even though its suggested naively all the time as the solution to all labour problems.

alternatives might be to increase outreach, immigration, enslaved prison workers, stronger unions to make the job more like what people are willing to work, etc

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean going to school for 10 years only to be in debt for 100K-300K+ dollars, and not have a good idea of whether you will be able to pay that back... is a massive problem. Most countries don't have this issue, for example. They have an abundance of doctors and engineers, because people who actually want to do those things, are able to pursue those careers without financial investment. We are snubbing an entire gene…

> They have an abundance of doctors and engineers They are usually paid several times less than people doing the same jobs in US.

I don't really see why that would be a problem.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#426

Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…

If you look at the graph, you'll realize it's a compensation (and housing crisis) issue. Detroit has 100% fill rate. My money is on the real-estate being cheap there. If you are renting a single bedroom for $2500 in Queens, then you need a $100k+ starting salary just to have an average lifestyle.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#427
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like reasonable pay for what is a very important job. Wouldn't object to paying much much more.

I'm an Air Traffic Controller and I'm required by the FAA to say these opinions are my own and not necessarily of the FAA. Some fully-certified air traffic controllers cannot afford to live where they work, not to mention the trainees that have the added stress of training and making less money. At my first facility, to live within 45 minutes of work, my whole paycheck went to rent, thank goodness I had savings from…

How much advance notice do you get of overtime requirement? Can you plan a week or month ahead? Do you have to cancel days off or vacations? (How much of those stats are available by FOIA, for each ATC location? Also, how can we see how many hires wash out/quit by year of experience, or pay grade?)

> At my first facility, to live within 45 minutes of work, my whole paycheck went to rent...

That's because your federal base payscale starts very low, $47K base for an ATC-4 in 'No locality' [1], right?

[0]: https://www.faa.gov/jobs/working_here/benefits

[1]: https://www.faa.gov/jobs/working_here/benefits/pay/atspp_pay...

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#428
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people have a low view of lawyers and investment bankers.

Those "low view" is out of jealousy and the idea that they're "doing evil" to get that money. It's a personal bias, which i personally also would ignore. I have respect for lawyers, and i have respect for investment bankers (who make huge merger/acquisition deals work).

Regardless of how that bias is formed it's a relevant opinion. A not insignificant amount of the population holds a negative opinion of lawyers and views them as trashy or shady. So much so that in many neighborhoods real estate brokers will off a casual caveat if one of the neighbors is a lawyer.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#429
post #416

The first problem is that everybody who wants to do the job needs to go through the FAA academy in Oklahoma, which is seriously limited by physical & instructor capacity. So only a couple thousand people a year can work their way through there, no matter how many are willing to do the job. So first we need more training capacity, and they already have trouble hiring and retaining instructors. This is a more direct pl…

Would StarCraft ladder rank be a good predictor of suitability?

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earning highly does not universally command respect the way being a doctor does. Some would even see earning that much as being immoral (i.e. actually negative)

Which very highly paid job does not command respect in society? I can’t think of any (Outside of anti-capitalist circles ofc)

Crane operators, any equipment operators really. Plumbers, HVAC tech, Boat Mechanics, the guy that climbed down in my septic tank to retrieve whatever he used to clear the line is making $300 an hour.

And... uhm... software developers.

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