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Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#421

Post by llamaLord »

jimbob45 wrote: post #414
hackerlight wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of Haidt's points is that you can't escape by deleting your account, because everyone else is still online. Suppose you're a teenage girl. The gossip mill about you is still going to be doing the rounds on social media, so the cyberbulling can't be stopped whether or not you're participating. If anything, being the strange outcast by refusing to go online will inflame things. That's one reason why a ban for those…

You say that but it's a bit tough to care if you don't see it happen. It's possible for everyone here to be the subject of a meme somewhere of a picture taken without consent. However, it just feels tough to care unless you actually see the meme and the reactions of people to it.

[flagged]

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#422

Post by Paul-Craft »

Brusco_RF wrote: post #400
Paul-Craft wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're making stuff for people who get no input into how that stuff is made, much of which they can't just stop consuming.

Of course people have an input. You can buy it from someone else who makes it a different way, or not at all.

Let's leave aside "not at all," because that's often not a viable option. Let's also remember, we're talking about reaching net zero emissions. For instance, where do I buy carbon neutral food?

You can't materialize those alternatives if they don't exist. And, when we're talking about making things in more sustainable ways by emitting less carbon, because carbon externalities aren't accounted for, the sustainable way is more expensive than the dirty way. So, capitalist corporations being the profit maximizing machines that they are, inevitably choose the dirty way.

Then there are the energy inputs to account for.

See also this comment by another user: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35630362

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#423

Post by tanseydavid »

I really wish there were more essays about controversial subjects that would take on the tone and presentation of information in the manner that Jonathan Haidt does it.

He really is an exceptional communicator and (to me at least) appears to be more interested in "the truth" than he is in "being right."

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#424

Post by Nextgrid »

jimbob45 wrote: post #414
hackerlight wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of Haidt's points is that you can't escape by deleting your account, because everyone else is still online. Suppose you're a teenage girl. The gossip mill about you is still going to be doing the rounds on social media, so the cyberbulling can't be stopped whether or not you're participating. If anything, being the strange outcast by refusing to go online will inflame things. That's one reason why a ban for those…

You say that but it's a bit tough to care if you don't see it happen. It's possible for everyone here to be the subject of a meme somewhere of a picture taken without consent. However, it just feels tough to care unless you actually see the meme and the reactions of people to it.

The difference between some completely random person taking a picture and your circle of friends is that it's very unlikely for the former to reach anyone you know, where as with the latter it's a guarantee.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#425

Post by MisterBastahrd »

knallfrosch wrote: post #11

Kudos to Mr Haidt. I wouldn't have the patience to explain over and over again why being addicted to your phone and comparing your looks to global superstars makes girls lonely and depressed. People will argue over percentage points of an r-value instead of simply asking three girls whether using Instagram four hours a day makes them happy.

Girls have been comparing themselves to global superstars as long as there has been photography.

So I guess we should just ban graven images and get it over with. That'll clearly solve everything.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#426

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

sw104 wrote: post #192
donkeyd wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the social plaza belongs to cooperate and the state I think it's too easy to just blame corporations and governments for this. They are definitely part in this, but a large part of lack of activism around climate change is also the people themselves who don't want to change. The Netherlands is a great example where, in recent elections, nearly half of votes went to political parties that want to reduce response to…

I'm completely in the 'given up hope boat' with you. It's clear that almost nobody is willing to truly change their lifestyle to practice what they preach. I live in a UK city and despite having a pretty good bus network, so many people come to work along the same routes as the buses in their own personal 4x4 vehicle. We'd require a literal environmentally friendly autocracy to pry people's cars out of their garages…

Regarding public transport a conductor enforcing code of conduct would be nice.

Jobs!1!!

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#427

Post by MisterBastahrd »

spacephysics wrote: post #359
watwut wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not playing the victim. Taking responsibility for your circumstances, no matter how shit of a hand you were dealt. Basically, gaslight yourself into believing that other peoples actions are your fault? Sometimes you are in fact a victim of something, no matter how uncomfortable that thought makes Haidt feel. > Sometimes things suck, and sometimes things are sad, and that’s okay. Common notion in many cultures is yo…

> Basically, gaslight yourself… No, it’s empowerment to make change to improve yourself and not wallow in it. Life’s unfair, everyone has their own circumstances with which to grow from. Unfortunately some have much worse to grow from. But staying stagnant and not taking the first step will keep you in that state. > Effectively be passive… Not at all what I mean. You should try to improve things, but during such impr…

Ignoring part of the problem is ignoring part of the solution.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#428

Post by libraryatnight »

1827162 wrote: post #94

I think it's the total visibility that's causing mental illness. There is no space where you can be with your friends, screw up, and not have it become known to everyone in your peer group. There's little space to make mistakes. No space to be yourself. You are under the watchful gaze of your friends, i.e. peer surveillance, nearly all of the time. Which induces stifling conformity. Everything's under constant scruti…

I left facebook a long time ago because it just felt like low value interaction. None of my friends on there were people I actually spent time with, and the whole thing seemed to just bring out the worst sides of people. I never specifically experienced the peer surveillance you describe, but I believe it's real or that social media has made people believe it's real (to a degree worthy of concern)

I think what I'm trying to say is that I don't relate to your perspective, but I don't doubt it, because to me social media is a cornucopia of ways to make yourself crazy and I believe that everyone that has a "why I think social media is making us worse people" rant is probably correct to some degree and highlighting a piece of a spectrum of horrible.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#429

Post by freejazz »

idontknowifican wrote: post #108
AlexandrB wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newspapers and magazines didn't microtarget their audience or have endless streams of content. This is like saying "look at all the people riding horses in old pictures, cars can't be that bad". That's not even getting into the level of corporate surveillance social media and online advertising have brought us.

what on earth are you talking about? newspapers have existed to control the narrative since inception. look at how they’ve been used, and listen to the lead editors talk about using their influence. it’s a slightly less targeted ad, sure, but my dad only reads conservative papers, and they don’t seem to be written with a common perspective

> newspapers have existed to control the narrative since inception

That's not even remotely close to what they said and is clearly just your own personal grievance with newspapers

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#430

Post by burnished »

TheMode wrote: post #416
asdff wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is unique to social media. Try dressing different from the norm in the 1990s before people even had cellphones in class and you'd definitely end up ostracized. It would be even worse because there's no way to find people who might be different like you, unlike today where there are forums and other websites.

Wouldn't you just be pushed into dressing the same way? Is it really problematic?

Getting into fights over it wasn't the greatest experience, does that count as problematic?
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