Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service • Hacker News Board

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#421

Post by ShredKazoo » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:56 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #403

ShredKazoo wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When you go to college, there is a contract that you sign to not cheat, to not be disruptive. Cheating isn't relevant when you're auditing a class. I think the key issue is how disruptive the behavior really is. My suspicion is that it isn't very disruptive and the people complaining are being oversensitive.

So you're going to continue dancing around the point I'm making. I believe we're done here then since you've planted your feet at the 'it's not disruptive even if people are saying it's disruptive' line.

Yep, just because people say it is disruptive doesn't make it disruptive. Imagine a gay couple sits together in class every day -- no PDA, but it's obvious they're a couple. Students complain to the professor that they're being disruptive. What is the appropriate response?

If they're consenting adults engaging in activities that are mutually consensual, generally speaking I don't think there is a problem.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#422

Post by sidlls » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:56 AM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #266

elil17 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s disrespectful because it ignores the fact that the women are not there to date, but to learn. The men are getting in their way by showing off and offering disingenuous tutoring.

How exactly do you do disengenuous tutoring? This system of equations only works out if you're hot?

Oh come on. It's disingenuous because the motive is to place the women in situations where the tutor can make advances, not to impart knowledge or help. They may or may not be effective tutors; that has nothing to do with whether it's disingenuous.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#423

Post by abathur » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:57 AM UTC

murrkat wrote: post #273

jhanschoo wrote: post #198

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

Is there not a chance one of the young men offering open labs or tutoring might, in fact, be intelligent, enthusiastic about the sciences and decent ?

Is there not a chance that the professor might, in fact, be correct in her assessment of the motivation of these upperclassmen and decent?

It's not like anyone's proposed sentencing them to death. (Or any punishment at all?)

Most universities have gobs of overlapping official and unofficial tutoring programs both broad and subject-specific. Enterprising scholars will also inevitably find a way to announce independent tutoriing services.

Students who are enthusiastic about sharing knowledge, making a few bucks, or adding a line to their resume generally don't have trouble finding such opportunities to share their knowledge and help others succeed without having to audit a course.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#424

Post by lelanthran » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:57 AM UTC

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #89

JuniorBalleg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you think that? Young women aren't oblivious to their own charms. They know what they're doing. They're getting free 1-on-1 tuition from a nerd, and the nerd gets to be within 3 feet of an attractive young woman - maybe even more than that, let's not be naive about college campuses - which might otherwise be impossible. Everybody wins. You might even upset the women most of all! When the quiet part is said…

Because I have an attractive daughter studying engineering, and she tells me that her single biggest problem is that she constantly has to reject, avoid, or otherwise fend off male advances nearly every day. It's exhausting, it makes her never feel at ease in her classes, and she is constantly being distracted when what she really wants is quiet time to figure out integration by parts or whatever. As a male, this is…

> Because I have an attractive daughter studying engineering, and she tells me that her single biggest problem is that she constantly has to reject, avoid, or otherwise fend off male advances nearly every day. I

And yet the complainants are complaining about not getting attention, which seems like a different problem that your daughter is experiencing.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#425

Post by eyelidlessness » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:57 AM UTC

murrkat wrote: post #273

jhanschoo wrote: post #198

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

Is there not a chance one of the young men offering open labs or tutoring might, in fact, be intelligent, enthusiastic about the sciences and decent ?

Not if they’re putting themselves in that tutoring position using a dating app specifically designed to facilitate manipulating those students for romantic purposes.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#426

Post by cpach » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:58 AM UTC

honkler wrote: post #218

GalenErso wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a woman, I can speak on experience that women will run away from any space men try to invade to seek us, whether it's dating apps, classes, bars, etc. The last thing I want is for a horde of thirsty men to chase me.

all men or only ugly men?

This trope is getting tiresome.

Having successful interactions with potential partners and forming relationships is really not about looking like Brad Pitt. Trust me, I know.

And I don’t say this just to try to be politically correct.

It’s easy for young people to fall into this delusion, but there’s much more to it than looks.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#427

Post by jbmny » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:58 AM UTC

I-love-india wrote: post #93

nhchris wrote: post #43

> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more clear with my "leching" comment. Still, it seems harassing in nature. It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues, and outside those strictly delimited places, men are to be…

No, you just to treat women with respect. The issue here is intention. The intention here is not about teaching or learning in the class. But its using that pretence in fact distrupting the intention of the class and people there. How do you like your intention distrupted? How about by unattractive slobs who are objectifying you and trying to be "helpful" and trying tricks they found on internet If someone is trying…

The "unattractive slobs" bit seems a bit excessive to me, but I absolutely agree with your main point: the issues are indeed respect and intention. As the professor describes it, it sounds like the perpetrators of this "prank" are turning this class into their own romantic playground without regard for their classmates' wishes. Their "help" comes under false pretenses. They seem to think their dating lives are more important than the education of their classmates. There's a fundamental disrespect and a bit of -- sorry to say it -- misogyny there.

An extreme example, I know, but I can't help but think of the movie Audition.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#428

Post by honkler » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:58 AM UTC

cpach wrote: post #426

honkler wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all men or only ugly men?

This trope is getting tiresome. Having successful interactions with potential partners and forming relationships is really not about looking like Brad Pitt. Trust me, I know. And I don’t say this just to try to be politically correct. It’s easy for young people to fall into this delusion, but there’s much more to it than looks.

excuse me! are you negating my LIVED EXPERIENCE??

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#429

Post by lelanthran » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:59 AM UTC

bitmunk wrote: post #393

type-r wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, yeah? If it turned into harassment then no, but the post itself says that's not happening. How is this any different from Bob talking your ear off about some hobby that he has that you have absolutely zero interest in? You just don't listen or tell him directly you don't care. This thread makes me feel like I'm going insane, this is basic human interaction.

Let's say there's 20 Bobs in your class, and they are pushy, not pushy because that would be harrasment ;) Also the Bobs don't give a shit about the class, they just got in to talk about [INSERT ANNOYING HOBBY]. It's totally okay if you say something that's totally not equivalent.

> Let's say there's 20 Bobs in your class, and they are pushy, not pushy because that would be harrasment ;) Also the Bobs don't give a shit about the class, they just got in to talk about [INSERT ANNOYING HOBBY].

I don't mind - I can say "No" 20 times in a single day and then be left alone for the rest of the semester.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#430

Post by gameman144 » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:59 AM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #78

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #9

I suspect that if you just announced this fact to the women in the class - either officially, if that doesn't get you in trouble, or under the table if it would - then the problem would basically solve itself. Certainly no males in the class would be getting dates.

I was a bit disappointed in how much the question and the answers concentrated on the course/university/app. Students have agency and are relatively intelligent. There's one side of "how to change this in the future" which matters of course. But for making the environment safer? The teacher can literally state what's happening for the first few lectures: "This semester the class composition looks different, because w…

Even this seems over the top. A simple "Wow, the ratio of men to women in this class is much higher than it usually is" can get the point across there, without alienating the men in the class who actually care about the subject material. Women aren't oblivious, and people can absolutely draw their own conclusions with that info.