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The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

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Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#421

Post by giantg2 »

yucky wrote: post #371
giantg2 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"and therefore would not make this information available to investigators." I find it unlikely that investigators would not be able to find those connections themselves, especially in the digital age. "Next, it would mean that powerful interests who had responsibility for the crime, by instigation or negligence, might be able to avoid accountability for their actions/omissions, since people would not be able to conne…

>I find it unlikely that investigators would not be able to find those connections themselves, especially in the digital age. Less than half of all murders in the US are solved in this "digital age", and the majority of the ones that are, are because of witnesses and informants telling what they know.

But we aren't talking about unsolved murders. You already can't release a name for those because they're unsolved. Witnesses and informants already have knowledge that a crime was committed. They can come forward on their own. Otherwise, investigators have to track them down anyways. The fact that we know who has perpetrated the crime makes it much easier to find any links because the investigators have access to the digital trail.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#422

Post by giantg2 »

chmod600 wrote: post #372
giantg2 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There's an interesting history of rights prior to the Constitution. But now that we have a constitution, there's a defined process for amending it." Yet the courts and legislature have added restrictions without following that process. "But if you allow politicians and judges to wildly change the constitution on a whim, you might as well not have one." I generally agree. However, it's not a radical change to include…

"Yet the courts and legislature have added restrictions without following that process." I don't mean to suggest that it's perfect or followed perfectly. As I said, there's room for interpretation. "However, it's not a radical change to include killers names under the 'fighting words'" I disagree and I doubt you'd find many people who understand our legal system that agree with you. "Why [would it not get much suppor…

"I disagree and I doubt you'd find many people who understand our legal system that agree with you."

Care to elaborate? Protections under the Constitution are actually more likely to have the interpretations change over time. I also don't appreciate the insinuated insult.

"Wouldn't all those people who support it be able to pressure mainstream outlets to suppress information that glorifies killers?"

It's much more effective via law. You have many people who are indifferent, so you only need more support than the detractors (like how an NPS works). Not only that, but you could still have a minority who support a network that still releases the name, undermining the others who don't.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#423

Post by traceroute66 »

skripp wrote: post #211
traceroute66 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not about "licenses to exist", but access to the press clubs (kisha clubs) Its the same in the UK. UK "political editors" working for the larger media outlets are granted lobby passes, which they guard like some precious gem stone. Lobby passes grant the journalists free access to certain parts of the Parliament buildings, in particular the lobby (hence the name of the pass !). It also grants them access to th…

I lived in London a couple of years in the early 2000s and me and my roommates used to watch Jeremy Paxman interview politicians and we were more or less in chock that he actually pushed them when they tried their usual non-answers. Now, we were quite young and didn’t really know that much about British politics to get that much out of it but it was so refreshing to see a interviewer that didn’t just back down like t…

> Jeremy Paxman interview politicians and we were more or less in chock that he actually pushed

Yes, Paxman was good at pushing politicians.

But he was not a lobby pass holder either, AFAIK. So he had nothing to loose.

Politicians with a grilling fetish came to see him on Newsnight knowing exactly what they would be facing.

But he equally represented a generation of political journalists that seems to have been lost with the newer generation. The new generation of political journalists seems to have lost that "dog with a bone" sprit, even those who are free of the self-imposed restrictions of the lobby pass.

The Johnson partygate, for example, came out of leaks rather than tough questioning of politicians. There are rumours around that some of the more high-profile lobby journalists were at said parties....

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#424

Post by freeopinion »

zopa wrote: post #402
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It surely goes in cycles in the US. Also arguably the US's republican model has had some of the weakest "democratic" aspects. Its popular veneration of the President as a martial pseudo-king "Command in Chief" (very weird to watch from up here in Canada, BTW, esp during the Bush post-9/11 years), its blatant blurring of church & state, its obsession with its military, its overt and obsequious patriotism and national…

> It surely goes in cycles in the US. Adams, Harrison, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Bush, Clinton. That spans the entire history of the country, and doesn't leave much room for cycles. I can't think of any period when inherited wealth and connections weren't extremely helpful in a political career. I'd say that "ossified authoritarian impulses built deep into [the] system" is a global issue, not a uniquely American one. A bet…

Naming six presidents to "span the entire history of the country" is oversimplifying to say the least.

But to stay on topic, I believe it was Churchill that said democracy was the absolute worst form of government. Except for all the others.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#425

Post by scaramanga »

suction wrote: post #154
scaramanga wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange. I don't see how it could be more controversial than his well known links to Nippon Kaigi. I mean, the cult connection is only important for the fact that someone killed him for it. And I am going to guess that it tells you something about the deranged mind of the killer, and probably not much interesting about Abe. Edit: I mean, come on, "newsflash: prominent politician involved in dubious business or accoun…

It could be controversial because it's a Korean sect and Abe was a nationalist hardliner whose image was that he would make Japan "proud" again by refreezing relations with China and Korea. So if he had connections to a Korean sect, and knowing what sects do, the next logical step would be to assume that he was controlled by or at least open to Korean interests, which is the opposite of what people elected him for, a…

Haha, yes, and that would be pretty deranged given that the Korean ultra-right/fascist movement is very supportive of Japanese fascism, no matter how loudly it denies, downplays, or asks to be thanked for atrocities committed against Koreans. And that includes the vast majority of nutty religious sects.

Edit: or to translate, the scandal would be "concern that fascist politician, might not be fascist enough" with an emphasis on "might" since it would be pure speculation

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#426

Post by scaramanga »

makeitdouble wrote: post #132
ETHisso2017 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren't the major Japanese media outlets covering this angle before the polls close in Japan's upper house elections (today)?

It’s linked to too many hot button issues, and would have way more impact than just anger against a single cult. If it was in the US context I would compare it to an alternative muslim cult founded in China and supporting the Palestinian regime. If someone shooting a US politician was found vaguely linked to that cult, it would be wiser to wait for a strong connection with the crime instead of just throwing around th…

Only if it was supporting a muslims/chinese/palestinians who are known for their vociferous support of the republican party?

I mean, these groups tend to be ultra-right wing and the Korean ultra-right are very supportive of the japanese ultra-right wing, like Abe, who is grandson of Nobusuke Kishi, "the devil of manchuria" and thinks grandpa was a lovely guy.

Edit: Nobusuke, not Nobuo, Nobuo is the other grandson who is defence minister. My bad.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#427

Post by scaramanga »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #163
SllX wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it controversial whether or not he did have a connection? There is a value of free speech in Japan but it’s not exactly like America’s, and I think the Japanese media would mostly avoid stirring the pot immediately prior to an election, and especially for a claim that may be unfounded. I won’t argue whether their approach is the right one or not and this is just my opinion, but that seems like that would be why…

> Isn’t it controversial whether or not he did have a connection? Controversial like linking the Kashoggi's death to the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman[1], but then participating to the G20 summit in Riyadh or selling them billions worth of weapons (including combat aircrafts), like nothing happened? [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56213528

They mean controversial in the sense of totally nonsensical distraction in which the stakes are basically zero.

Not controversial as in, "of any real consequence"

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#428

Post by yucky »

giantg2 wrote: post #421
yucky wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I find it unlikely that investigators would not be able to find those connections themselves, especially in the digital age. Less than half of all murders in the US are solved in this "digital age", and the majority of the ones that are, are because of witnesses and informants telling what they know.

But we aren't talking about unsolved murders. You already can't release a name for those because they're unsolved . Witnesses and informants already have knowledge that a crime was committed. They can come forward on their own. Otherwise, investigators have to track them down anyways. The fact that we know who has perpetrated the crime makes it much easier to find any links because the investigators have access to th…

It refutes your point that digital evidence is enough. It's clearly not. So the original point was correct.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#429

Post by naniwaduni »

hatenberg wrote: post #413
naniwaduni wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western chess pieces don't fall over like dominoes either, since they're usually kind of rounded...

Western Chess, they got cowboy hats? Asking for a Persian friend...

Well, they do have horses!
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