Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The Western intelligence apparatus has been hijacked by a force that is getting instructions from the reptilian brain The sheer wackiness of David Icke's Antisemitism (where 'reptile brains' are coda for Jews) never ceases to amaze me.
Why bring the Jews into this? What are you playing?
CIA black site detainee served as training prop to teach torture techniques
421–430 of 434 posts
Re: CIA black site detainee served as training prop to teach torture techniques
#422This is the kind of stuff that probably makes some people’s job down the pipe easier and at the same time undermines the Western civilization. Make no mistake, no US citizen outside of the political class benefits from this or other atrocities. The exact same goes for the surveillance programs. Losing the moral high ground degrades the whole society. The whole anti establishment movement rallies around stuff like thi…
>Losing the moral high ground degrades the whole society. How does having "the moral high ground" help the lower class of a society?
>How does having "the moral high ground" help the lower class of a society?
Because real moral does not just affect the rich? Also called being social.
Re: CIA black site detainee served as training prop to teach torture techniques
#423Earlier quoted context omitted.
> - OP was dishonest by listing only a few countries that haven't signed on I don’t think you know the definition of dishonest. One final time I list a number of countries that aren’t signatories to the Rome Statute, I never stated or implied that was an exhaustive list. >OP argument was "everyone else is doing it", which is not very convincing That is dishonest because that was not my argument and obviously inconsis…
For someone who claims to have gone to law school, you either don't state arguments well or you're very good at moving the goal posts. One final time I list a number of countries that aren’t signatories to the Rome Statute, I never stated or implied that was an exhaustive list. Let's see exactly what you said "Not exactly a list of countries championing human rights or state Sovereignty, the US included." Your argume…
> You said "When all other countries we'd consider the closest things to paragons of democracy we have signed it, it paints a pretty clear picture."
That’s at least the second time you direct quote me on something I didn’t say. That’s the definition of dishonest or you don’t know how quotes work.
If you had better reading comprehension you would clearly see my post isn’t about what the US should do or shouldn’t do, much less about “they should jump off the bridge because everyone else is jumping off a bridge.” My post was about “why” the US isn’t a a signatory to the Rome Statue. The list of other countries not signatories to the Rome Statute, for the most part, have a history of foreign aggression and human rights abuses, the US included, so of course they don’t want to subject themselves to the ICC because it is against their interests to submit themselves to a tribunal that has jurisdiction over their actual and/or anticipated crimes.
> It's because the US (like the major EU powers) make a choice - get a seat at the table or don't. Joining provides no guarantees that they'll adhere to the rules of membership. If the UN were to pass a resolution saying "Russia rightfully owns Poland and the land within the prior borders of East Germany". You think Germany will go "gee golly, we're a member of the UN so we better just hand it over". No, they'd weasel their way out of their obligations and defend their sovereignty. Just like the US and every other nation would.
And yet the US is a member of the UN and not the ICC. Your response does nothing to explain the question I asked you to defend your position, why the US would be part of the UN and not the ICC.
Good luck in your future endeavors.
Re: CIA black site detainee served as training prop to teach torture techniques
#424Bonkers reading through this thread and seeing people discuss torture as casually and unemotionally as if it were just a regular ol' anyday thing. Like wow folks, this is not academic!
Not sure what this looked like when you posted two hours ago, but all the top posts now are calling this evil, disgusting, awful, and all the bad things. Glancing through the comments now, I see only maybe one or two that don't overtly and somewhat emotionally condemn this. And those one or two that don't aren't praising it by any means either.
That's great. I don't know if they hid the comments I was referring to or what, but all the top comments at first were these really disgusting academic takes on torture and debating its value. Even for HN – which I often find to be pretty skewed toward the libertarian like others mentioned – it was appalling.
Re: CIA black site detainee served as training prop to teach torture techniques
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, in Latin America we call ourselves "americanos". It's even mentioned in the English language version of Wikipedia for the "American (word)" entry, under "Cultural reception" or something like that. It states "Hispanic Americans" challenge the notion that "American" should be exclusively used for people from the US. It also states the RAE (linguistics body from Spain) also challenges the English language commo…
That's fine if Americanos means something different in Spanish. But in the English language it's most typical use is citizens of the USA. That's fine if you want to use the word differently, but don't complain when people don't know what you're talking about.
You are deliberately avoiding the central point, which wasn't about linguistics. In any case English language Wikipedia acknowledges this controversy.
> don't complain when people don't know what you're talking about
I'm not complaining and everyone here does know what I'm talking about.
Actually it was u/ericmay who was complaining about alleged "anti-American" sentiment. Because this is about the world stage and about international rules, the interpretation that America != US is particularly relevant in this case; the interpretation about "common usage" is less relevant since this has major implications for the rest of the world (i.e. that the US is not above the rules and is not the moral light of the free world or whatever).
Re: CIA black site detainee served as training prop to teach torture techniques
#426Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think, while this might have been the perception up until a few weeks ago, the invasion of Ukraine has shown the world what a true "bully" on the international stage looks like. There will always be cloistered individuals who think that anyone who isn't "pure" (for an increasingly variable definition of pure) is evil. That opinion is absolutely fine to have until reality strikes. The bubble of people who post on HN…
> The bubble of people who post on HN have been living in that cloister for the last decade or so, not realizing what goes on in the world. Maybe some, but some of us in Latin America live in countries that at times have been subjected to US "influence" which resulted in subverting governments, abductions and torture. All in the name of freedom and fighting communism, which I guess makes it alright!
Unironically yes
Re: CIA black site detainee served as training prop to teach torture techniques
#427Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think, while this might have been the perception up until a few weeks ago, the invasion of Ukraine has shown the world what a true "bully" on the international stage looks like. There will always be cloistered individuals who think that anyone who isn't "pure" (for an increasingly variable definition of pure) is evil. That opinion is absolutely fine to have until reality strikes. The bubble of people who post on HN…
The US has killed a whole lot more people and committed a whole lot more war crimes and crimes against humanity than the USSR did in the past 70 years. Possibly more than any other country in the world.
...what kind of revisionist nonsense are you trying to make up? Like this is objectively false and comes across as tankie propaganda that belongs on Reddit.
Re: CIA black site detainee served as training prop to teach torture techniques
#428Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US has killed a whole lot more people and committed a whole lot more war crimes and crimes against humanity than the USSR did in the past 70 years. Possibly more than any other country in the world.
Why 70, so you can ignore the millions killed by Stalin and communism?
Just ignoring all the murders in Hungary and Poland as well.
They're a shill, it's fine.
Re: CIA black site detainee served as training prop to teach torture techniques
#429Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think, while this might have been the perception up until a few weeks ago, the invasion of Ukraine has shown the world what a true "bully" on the international stage looks like. There will always be cloistered individuals who think that anyone who isn't "pure" (for an increasingly variable definition of pure) is evil. That opinion is absolutely fine to have until reality strikes. The bubble of people who post on HN…
Well, then I pass the word to American diplomat (and architect of the Cold war) George Kennan, who wrote an article in NYT in 1997(!), claiming NATO (i.e. US) expansion to Russian borders to be fateful error: https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/05/opinion/a-fateful-error.h... Can't you see that Ukraine war is the direct consequence of this decision? To reinforce the statement: all public polls in 90s showed Russians to b…
New account
Poor grammar
Blames Ukrainian self determination for the war.
This is a shill propaganda account
Re: CIA black site detainee served as training prop to teach torture techniques
#430Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe what the grandparent post actually meant was, "This undermines our moral posture in accusing Russia of war crimes." Which is true.
That assumes that everyone is American. I’m not. Even if I were I did not commit war crimes, nor did most of the people who post on this forum. So it is not true that it undermines “our” moral posture. That is just rethorical gymnastic. I think the US militaries have insufficient controls to uncover and punish war crimes, and the “American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002” is particularly disgracefull. I believe…
I apologize if there wasn't enough context to understand that both I and the grandparent of the person I replied to are Americans. When I used "we" and not "the U.S." it was because I was specifically speaking as a U.S. citizen.