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Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

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Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#421

Post by [deleted] »

defaultname wrote: post #302
tomxor wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple of today has a very conflicted relationship with webkit, the anticompetitive reasons they want to keep their platform "webkit only", simultaneously encourages them to support and neglect webkit development. i.e on the one hand, webkit must be reliable and secure and compatible "enough" to provide a decent basic browsing experience. But should not improve so much as to make developing applications competitiv…

"basic browsing experience" Google pushes out yet another half-baked, poorly considered new feature in Chrome and overnight has mobs chanting about Safari purportedly holding everyone back because of some close to irrelevant fringe thing. Safari might just be the fastest browser, and it supports a ridiculous, awe-inspiring array of features and standards. And the greatest indictment of the ridiculous anti-Safari smea…

[deleted]

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#422

Post by dharmaturtle »

kwertyoowiyop wrote: post #249
akagusu wrote: post #130

The real problem of Firefox is one that nobody cares about: distribution. Let's say Firefox is the most advanced browser of the universe. How can you get people to install Firefox? Chrome has the advantage here because it is preinstalled in every Android phone and Android has more than 90% market share. The second advantage Chrome has is that it cannot be uninstalled from Android. The fact that Android phones have a…

Google: ‘We don’t force people to use Chrome! We just ask them again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again…’

Are you talking about Chrome or Edge?

Both are better than Safari on iOS though, which does force you to use it.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#423

Post by R0b0t1 »

K0nserv wrote: post #191
samwillis wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. In many ways Apple's anti-competitive behaviour on iOS/iPadOS is a blessing. It's one of the few things that keep Chromium's dominance in check. Of course, it's not great that Apple are stifling innovation like this, but consider the alternative: Chromium dominance on all platforms. I think it’s worth noting that (at least I believe) the reason apple limit the usage of other browser engines in iOS isn’t (mostly)…

I don't disagree that is their publicly stated reason for the limitation. Them having the ulterior motive of stifling PWAs on iOS and competition for mobile Safari is a common theory. Whether they do have ulterior motives or not, the effect is that innovation is stifled.

US antitrust law is based on tests of harm to the consumer (though most people do not know this nor about its application due to lack of enforcement). Apple frames everything they do as positive for the consumer to throw up chaff that makes consumer harm harder to quantify for people who don't know better.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#424

Post by kevingadd »

nilslindemann wrote: post #339
K0nserv wrote: post #153

I've been meaning to write almost exactly this blog post for a while now, glad that someone else did it. Two things that I think are worth calling out: 1. In many ways Apple's anti-competitive behaviour on iOS/iPadOS is a blessing. It's one of the few things that keep Chromium's dominance in check. Of course, it's not great that Apple are stifling innovation like this, but consider the alternative: Chromium dominance…

I always wondered why the engine is not separated from the GUI in browsers. In chess world this is totally normal, you have a chess GUI and a chess engine (and a crude communication protocol).

All the major browser engines can be embedded, the GUI is a separate layer. It's been that way for ages, even IE was this way.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#425

Post by bacchusracine »

InvisibleUp wrote: post #390
stupendousyappi wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the browser extension incident you're referring to? Can you provide a link to an article or previous HN discussion?

They're referring to https://www.engadget.com/2017-12-16-firefox-mr-robot-extensi... , an event that occurred 5 years ago, was immediately rolled back after launch, and hasn't happened again.

>an event that occurred 5 years ago, was immediately rolled back after launch, and hasn't happened again.

It shouldn't have happened in the first place so no one gets any points for taking it down immediately. The fact it doesn't seem to have happened again also earns no points because again it should never have happened in the first place. At no point should your web browser silently install an addon/extension without your permission. That this same web browser wants to trot around afterwards and prattle on about how secure and open they are makes it even worse.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#426

Post by nunez »

I am honestly surprised that the webdev community allowed this to happen. This is, pretty much, exactly what happened with Trident/Internet Explorer back in the day. This is also how we got the awesomeness that was ActiveX.

Though, to be fair to the Chromium maintainers, they've done an excellent job of making it incredibly easy to develop against. Puppeteer is the gold standard for browser automation, Chromium Headless makes it easy to run pretty much any webdriver against it, then there's Embedded Framework, Electron, etc. Firefox could have/should have done more here.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#427

Post by roystonvassey »

K0nserv wrote: post #153

I've been meaning to write almost exactly this blog post for a while now, glad that someone else did it. Two things that I think are worth calling out: 1. In many ways Apple's anti-competitive behaviour on iOS/iPadOS is a blessing. It's one of the few things that keep Chromium's dominance in check. Of course, it's not great that Apple are stifling innovation like this, but consider the alternative: Chromium dominance…

Google is up to so many sneaky things, it's stopped surprising me to find out how they're always one step ahead to make their products even more intrusive.

A new one I found out is their supposedly open-source initiative called 'Cloud Information Model' [1]. Along with others such as Salesforce, Genesys and AWS (companies that I personally don't trust), they promise 'you can create seamless and tailored personal experiences across cloud-native applications'. It's all a bit vague and fancy and sufficiently "tech-y" to impress the marketing folks but colour me suspicious.

EDIT: forgot the link,

1: https://cloudinformationmodel.org/faq/

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#428

Post by veidelis »

GuB-42 wrote: post #347
akagusu wrote: post #130

The real problem of Firefox is one that nobody cares about: distribution. Let's say Firefox is the most advanced browser of the universe. How can you get people to install Firefox? Chrome has the advantage here because it is preinstalled in every Android phone and Android has more than 90% market share. The second advantage Chrome has is that it cannot be uninstalled from Android. The fact that Android phones have a…

Firefox had more than 30% market share at their peak, against pre-installed IE and Microsoft aggressive tactics. It was before the ballot screen. Together with Chrome, they ended up beating IE, at the time neither had a significant advantage in distribution, at least compared to IE. So in theory, Chrome can be beaten, except that unlike IE, Chrome doesn't suck, in fact, about the only thing going for Firefox is that…

Addons on mobiles are another thing going for Firefox. What youtube ads?

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#429

Post by joecool1029 »

officeplant wrote: post #251
KennyBlanken wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery capacity != battery life. I switched to a used iPhone and was bummed my 8+ had a "small" ~2400mah battery compared to my Android phone, which was 3100. Then I actually started using it. Even though the Android phone had an OLED screen, it would absolutely melt the battery. I have so little "battery charge anxiety" now it's not even funny. I don't even bother to charge it above 80-85% most of the time...and th…

Idk, I'm a big fan of what companies like Motorola are doing by taking a 4000mah+ battery and pairing it with some of those low end SoC's that sip battery. Androids power usage can be complete trash, but I've managed 4 days of battery out of these cheap Motorola phones while still using discord/twitter/telegram like normal. If apple actually went up on their battery sizing they could easily achieve Monday to Friday b…

There's also the Oppo/Oneplus way of doing things and pairing high quality cells to a better charge standard (SuperVOOC/WARP) that can throw 65W (or more) at the phone and minimize time spent charging. I can't overstate how much this changes my use pattern when I know I can throw phone on charger, take a shower, and by the time I'm out it's full.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#430

Post by lillecarl »

klyrs wrote: post #408
lillecarl wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really a you problem. The market share of Linux desktops is low enough that in reality it doesn't matter, and you're pulling the rug(binaries) from underneath a web browser (one of the most complex software projects known to man) and expect it to keep running flawlessly. I'm using NixOS where every version of every dependency of every program I install will be saved until I cleanup the garbage (1 command) so I d…

Yes. The market share of Firefox is low enough that in reality it doesn't matter. So very insightful. Thank you for showing me the light. Also, I like that you think that Firefox's default settings is "holding it wrong." That's rather the point, isn't it?

It's not Firefox's default settings, It's a technical challenge that they haven't solved. But that I would argue shouldn't really be solved. _YOU_ chose to update your browser while it was running, you're on a non-mainstream platform (Linux Desktop) and you're unable to grasp that pulling binaries and replacing them with others could cause issues.

Reddit will have you back now.

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