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Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

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Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#421

Post by intrasight »

noahmbarr wrote: post #265
intrasight wrote: post #252

My opinion is that the industry has gone in the wrong direction with batteries. Cars should use swappable rechargeable batteries swapped by robots at the charging station. Faster pit stops and simpler batteries (no need for water-cooled, etc) and cheaper cars. And elimination of concern of battery warranty.

Guessing you're a non-EV owner. I've owned a Tesla for the last 6 months. Here's my experience: * It charges at home, begining the charge at 12:30AM just after the rates drop. It charges to ~240 miles of range. * For the 4 days I've wanted to go futher, charged upto 100% and that solved my problem 2 of the 4. * Other 2 days, I stopped at a charger along my way on a road trip. there was a place to grab food and take a…

Guessing your not an owner of a vehicle that has a swappable battery ;) And I'm assuming that 100% of non-Tesla owners would agree.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#422

Post by Zanni »

Graffur wrote: post #299

Can someone living in an apartment with no charging point at their space get an electric car?

Yeah, maybe. It really depends on your use case and the charging you have available to you. If you're mostly going back and forth to work and you can charge there, then definitely yes. If you drive a lot and you don't have access to a convenient Level 3 charger, then probably no.

I had my Model S about 18 months before I could get a home charger installed at my townhouse. I spent a lot of time in the Whole Foods parking lot, charging at 12 mph. Not recommended. Later, I discovered a Level 3 charger (which required a $500 adapter to use), and I'd just go catch a movie once a week while my car charged at 100 mph.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#423

Post by intrasight »

chiph wrote: post #371
intrasight wrote: post #252

My opinion is that the industry has gone in the wrong direction with batteries. Cars should use swappable rechargeable batteries swapped by robots at the charging station. Faster pit stops and simpler batteries (no need for water-cooled, etc) and cheaper cars. And elimination of concern of battery warranty.

The problem is Gresham's Law as applied to battery packs. A new EV owner decides to go on a trip and make use of the new swap stations. Their battery pack is brand new and charges to 100%. When they swap it, they're likely to get a 2 or 3 year old pack that only charges to 70%. It was intentionally exchanged at the swap station by an owner who was willing to roll the dice to try and get a newer pack from someone like…

Your missing the point and proposal. I'm personally not purchasing a car whose batter costs more than any card I've ever purchased. And I am not alone. If I don't own the battery, I didn't pay fore it either. I've just shaved $16K off the car cost. At that lower price, myself and many other would consider it.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#424

Post by chippiewill »

guyzero wrote: post #161
rsync wrote: post #142

Is it their electric car or is it their car, electric ? I don't want your electric car. I don't want your e-initiative i-mobile green-tech tron-car. I want one of your actual cars, just electric . I don't want an ID.4 - I just want a Passat. I don't want the polestar e-initiative i-concept - I just want a V90 wagon. I don't want a future space truck, I just want a Silverado - but electric. God. Dammit.

The had the eGolf, which was the Golf, but electric. They were almost indistinguishable. The eGolf range was 125 miles, the ID.4 range is 250 miles. That's why they have new specific electric models. Electrifying existing models is generally underwhelming.

Yep. It goes beyond just range.

To make space for the battery they had to use up a chunk of the bootspace. Additionally the massive extra weight means the eGolf handles rather differently (particularly cornering) from a regular Golf.

An ePassat would maybe look like a normal Passat but it wouldn't be as practical, it would have barely any range and wouldn't drive like one.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#425

Post by mcot2 »

nine_k wrote: post #408
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best-selling[1] vehicle in America, the Ford F-150, had an average sale price of $47,174 in 2018[2]. I'm sure it's only gone up since. Also, the latest version of the map you shared shows the F-150 being the most popular vehicle in 18 states, none of which are California or New York: https://insurify.com/insights/most-popular-cars-in-america-2... --- [1] https://www.autobytel.com/ford/f-150/car-buying-guides/why-…

But frankly, it's a light truck . It's contractor's vehicle, or farmer's, but it's hardly a commuter car. It may be reasonable for countryside, like a boat may be reasonable for seaside. Nevertheless, just googled it: --- People also ask: How much does a 2020 F-150 cost? From $28,745 2020 Ford F-150 / MSRP ---

lol if you think trucks are primarily driven by contractors or farmers. You should visit the south, trucks are most definitely used as commuter cars.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#426

Post by intrasight »

extrapickles wrote: post #389
TulliusCicero wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla attempted it and gave up. Given how much Musk loves ambition, there's probably a decent reason for it.

Part of the problem is accounting. Since the value of a battery pack is highly variable depending on its remaining life, the only way it would work is if you subscribed/leased the battery so it didn't matter what the delta in value of the packs are. Without that, you have to return to the exact same swapping station and pickup your original battery.

You missed the key point of swapping batteries. You don't own the battery nor did you pay ($16K) for the battery. So there is no "original battery". I assume that in ten years we will have "standard units of power" - the equivalent of a large "D" cell battery.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#427

Post by hashkb »

nine_k wrote: post #408
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best-selling[1] vehicle in America, the Ford F-150, had an average sale price of $47,174 in 2018[2]. I'm sure it's only gone up since. Also, the latest version of the map you shared shows the F-150 being the most popular vehicle in 18 states, none of which are California or New York: https://insurify.com/insights/most-popular-cars-in-america-2... --- [1] https://www.autobytel.com/ford/f-150/car-buying-guides/why-…

But frankly, it's a light truck . It's contractor's vehicle, or farmer's, but it's hardly a commuter car. It may be reasonable for countryside, like a boat may be reasonable for seaside. Nevertheless, just googled it: --- People also ask: How much does a 2020 F-150 cost? From $28,745 2020 Ford F-150 / MSRP ---

It's a very light truck. Especially these days. Seems like a vanity vehicle mostly. If you're hauling you have a bigger truck, and if you're offroading you have a jeep or something.

Nobody is using electric for anything that we'd relate to as "critical" or "high availability". In fact, there are trucks that just bring gasoline to bigger trucks.

Source: I live at 8300ft in Colorado.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#428

Post by Tagbert »

geoelectric wrote: post #321
outside1234 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Tesla's cars are exactly this - they are largely gas sedans that look normal and are electric. People don't want some dorky looking electric car like Volkswagen's or BMW's. They want a normal car that's electric.

The pseudo-fastback sedan actually wasn't nearly as popular until around the time the model S came out. Then I started seeing it in a lot more cars, especially luxury, where the rear window comes down almost to the edge of the trunk. I'd always credited the S with kicking off the trend.

The 4-door coupe body style became popular in 2007/8. Mercedes and VW both brought out new models with that profile with the fastback rear roofline tapering down to the the trunk.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#429

Post by AmericanChopper »

imoverclocked wrote: post #416
AmericanChopper wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a drive way, and it’s not solved for me. My driving needs would require me to be frequently filling up at charging stations. These kind of “it’s solved” statements are very much picking the facts to fit the conclusion, rather than the other way around. Pointing this out usually elicits a “well you should change your lifestyle to better suit the features of an electric car”. If you tried to say that about softw…

It’s more than just “transport,” it’s the environment. At one point, gas stations were hard to find and the horse/buggy reigned supreme. Gas cars were actually much cleaner then than the alternative. I’m glad we made that transition and I look forward to this new transition which will undoubtedly require at least a little change from just about everyone.

The importance of other factors don’t make UX obstacles magically disappear. If that’s the point a person is trying to make, then that’s what they should say. Not “UX is solved now”.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#430

Post by intrasight »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #337
intrasight wrote: post #252

My opinion is that the industry has gone in the wrong direction with batteries. Cars should use swappable rechargeable batteries swapped by robots at the charging station. Faster pit stops and simpler batteries (no need for water-cooled, etc) and cheaper cars. And elimination of concern of battery warranty.

Many companies have tried this; all have failed. The latest to try is Ample [0], and we'll see how far they get. As a peer poster here observed, this idea seems correlated with people who don't have actual experience with EV ownership. It's a solution to a non-problem for the average driver [1]. Besides, Tesla now spends about $250K to build a supercharger. A robotically-operated battery-swapping station would probab…

I am aware that some companies have tried (I wouldn't say "many"). And I know that Apple tried with the Newton and failed - and didn't give up.

I don't think that a battery swapper would be any more complicated than an automatic car wash.

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