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Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

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Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#421
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're companies trying to avoid taxes or regulation. Only companies on the downslide really consider that as an relevant option. Which is why continental Europe has so many fast-growing tech companies.

I think that the work culture in Europe is also a factor. Europeans are much less willing to work the way a lot of the startups expect.

This isn't true at all. There are people everywhere willing to work their butts off and people everywhere who are wanting to do 9-5 work/life balance.

Those in Europe who want to work the way startups expect tend to try it in the USA. Not always, but many of them do.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#422
post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major tax reduction. Austin property taxes are 1.8%. SF property taxes are 0.65%. For it to breakeven, just on property tax, Austin property taxes on a house 1/3 the cost of an SF house would have to be 3*0.65 or 1.95%. So people in Austin effectively pay less or the same on property tax than people in San Francisco. I might add, house prices in Austin/Dallas/Houston are often less than 1/3rd the price of houses in…

sf property tax is 1.2

Thank you!

That would make property taxes in Austin need to be 3 * 1.2 or 3.6, which is double what they actually are.

So people in SF pay basically double property tax of people in Austin for their houses, excluding the fact that houses in Austin are much larger.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#423
post #16

HP and Oracle don’t exactly represent the heart of Silicon Valley today and what makes it special/unique. I actually think zombie corporations like Oracle, companies that haven’t innovated in decades and instead rely on an army of sales people to sell legacy software, are somewhat the antithesis of Silicon Valley which is really about real technological innovation and disruption at it’s core. I know there are lots of…

I partially agree. However, Elon Musk has personally moved to Texas, and he's begun moving some operations of his companies there as well, like SpaceX and Tesla. And those are certainly disruptors. You're underestimating just how toxic California's political climate has become towards business. Democrats see them as bottomless pits of money to be abused and extorted, while giving them nothing back in return. Some com…

The political climate in California is astonishingly toxic and disconnected from the realities of the market. I for one cannot wait to leave this place for greener pastures. California's answer to everything is raise taxes. And everyone cheers. And nothing gets fixed.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#424
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA still has the advantage of no noncompetes. It's fairly standard for Texas companies to require an enforceable noncompete. These companies are sort of like mules -- born from perhaps many fertile companies, but produce no offspring.

I've heard this and the general borderline unenforceability of "we own all your work, even during off hours" clauses in employment contracts as a major reason that the center of innovation shifted from Boston and the East Coast to Silicon Valley and California. Boston should have been Silicon Valley. It had all the education and a much deeper history of innovation. It also could have been down in New Jersey where Bel…

Also rich people that are willing to take a risk, and old people that stay relevant and up-to-date on technology.

I grew up in Boston and spent the first 4 years of my career there. The biggest problem the Boston startup scene has is that VCs won't fund you unless you're 40+, have a proven track record at an established local company, and can demonstrate a solid business model with LOIs or customer contracts in hand. Sounds reasonable, right? Except that Microsoft, Facebook, Reddit, DropBox, and YCombinator all started in Boston and left because none of them ticked the boxes needed to attract funding. I had lunch with Drew Houston right after he closed DropBox's Series A, when he was looking for employee #2. He said that immediately after presenting to Sequoia, the whole office had checked out the product and he had a term sheet within a week; meanwhile the Boston VCs they presented to (despite knowing Drew since childhood) had hemmed and hawed and said "We need more data".

These are the kind of cultural differences that aren't easily papered over with policy. They're also why the Midwest and the South struggle to attract and keep startup ecosystems. I suspect that many of the problems in California (over-regulation, direct democracy, laissez-faire overlooking of social problems like homelessness & crime, the tendency for everyone to jump on the next bubble) are actually the flip sides of the cultural attributes that make it great, which is an extreme openness to new experiences and a willingness to take a chance on new ideas.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#425
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're companies trying to avoid taxes or regulation. Only companies on the downslide really consider that as an relevant option. Which is why continental Europe has so many fast-growing tech companies.

I think that the work culture in Europe is also a factor. Europeans are much less willing to work the way a lot of the startups expect.

Good for them. American work culture is...well, retarded (I couldn't think of a less offensive term that also describes it well).

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#426
post #16

HP and Oracle don’t exactly represent the heart of Silicon Valley today and what makes it special/unique. I actually think zombie corporations like Oracle, companies that haven’t innovated in decades and instead rely on an army of sales people to sell legacy software, are somewhat the antithesis of Silicon Valley which is really about real technological innovation and disruption at it’s core. I know there are lots of…

> I actually think zombie corporations like Oracle, companies that haven’t innovated in decades and instead rely on an army of sales people to sell legacy software.

Those army of sales people are probably now selling you the latest and greatest in vendor lock-in on behalf of AWS [0] and GCP [1]. There is no escaping the sales army :)

[0] https://www.crn.com/news/cloud/aws-takes-aim-at-oracle-by-hi...

[1] https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2019/04/09/google-c...

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#427

I am curious if anyone agrees with my take: HP Enterprise and Oracle did not move because Texas is "more tech friendly." Instead they moved because HPE and Oracle are no longer primarily tech companies. While they do substantial technical work, most of that will remain in SV. It's sort of the mirror of Apple, which also has a substantial presence in Austin (finance, etc) but is headquartered in SV because it is prima…

I call it the "COVID come to Jesus moment". I remember for the last year or two. The murmurs here, twitter and reddit has been "Why don't these companies understand that their work can all be remote", "why does X company insist on having on-site employees". Meanwhile on the other side of the spectrum you had the higher ups all murmuring "well if we let people work from home, then our company will be doomed". Then COV…

WFH when everyone is forced to do it is different than WFH when you decide freely to do it and your competitor doesn't. These companies are fighting market share battles and are willing to pay millions or billions if the scale is large enough for an edge on competition.

I continue to believe when this is over, not much changes in terms of remote work v. in person. Supplemental/support orgs might go WFH but the innovation engines will be in person and close to the c-suite.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#428
post #322

> the cost of housing is one-third of Bay Area prices and the absence of a state personal income tax amounts to a 13.3% raise for top earners. This point always makes me laugh because anyone who lives in affluent TX neighborhoods knows your property tax is _enormous_ and usually makes up for a majority of state income tax you save. They still need to pay for roads and schools, right?

Which is great. A high property tax keeps the price of housing down (what people will pay for a house is cost per month, basically mortgage plus property tax), makes people want to have new housing built so that housing prices don't go up, and promotes a general attitude of anti-NIMBYism. Just the opposite of California with its low property tax and very aristocratic prop 13 problem.

Somehow my hometown suburbs, and where the rest of my family still lives, still found plenty of motivation for NIMBYism and desiring property value appreciation.

You're confusing "you can grow outward with single-family-homes near indefinitely" with "we want more apartment buildings near our precious houses!" You still get a lot of the same problems, you've just changed the complexion of the traffic problems...

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and Cook County has a property tax rate that is nearly 2x San Francisco county.

But income taxes are lower. A $200k income has an effective state tax rate of 7.67% in California and 4.95% in Illinois (IL has a flat tax rate). And considering real estate is much cheaper in Chicago, a home that's half as much would offer the same standard of living, when compared to SF. So you could pay the same amount in property taxes, and less income tax.

IL tax rates will have to go to pay for all of the debt for their defined benefit pensions and retiree healthcare.

CA also has that problem, but not to the degree IL has. IL has fewer high income earners to spread the pain around, and higher debt amounts overall.

It’s part of the reason why land is so much cheaper in IL.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But moving to Texas frees up real estate in the Bay Area for more productive businesses. And given the transient nature of techies, many of those techies would have moved to California will now move to Texas, putting some relief into the housing market and maybe clearing up traffic a bit. I wouldn’t see these two moving as a negative, they’ve long had reputations as bad places to work.

The biggest hit will be on tax revenue, new "sexy" businesses dont tend to make as much money as the zombie companies that seem to print money

California makes money on cap gains taxes as well as corporate income taxes. And likely the personal income taxes won't change.

Complaining about dev teams moving to texas is like complaining about goods being manufactured in China. It's a net positive for the whole world, plus competition will improve the Vally and SF just as much as it improves individual companies and products.

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