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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

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421–430 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#421
One thing I've seen Apple do more and more in recent times is the concept of introducing something for the good of the user with sometimes little regard to the impact shouldered by developers or businesses.

Sometimes they're smaller impacts - like the ability to only enable GPS when an App is actively being used. Other times they are larger - like the the changes to the Advertising and Device IDs.

I've read here that the loss of the singular, centralized and controlled store could potentially be an issue for things like malware, privacy, and some of the other causes Apple has come out to fight for on behalf of the user. Perhaps Apple forgot to consider its own behavior as a threat to those ideals? Could Apple have avoided all of this if they applied the principles they used in other cases to themselves?

If the store had a 12% rate would Epic have bothered to do this? Other decisions can come into play too, like no ability for upgrade pricing and how subscrption costs are handled. If we really look, the list could get long.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if Apple truly cares about the things that could be lost if the App ecosystem is altered, then perhaps it needs to take the same hit it has doled out to others in the name of that cause?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Epic could have taken the matter directly to the courts and taken action (whatever it was) after a verdict. Heck, they could even have tried to make a case to the European Union, which seems to have a knack for pursuing this kind of thing. A ruling over there wouldn't directly impact the rest of the world, but it could get the ball rolling. Instead, they decided to make a spectacle of this whole issue to try…

> Customers are being used as cannon fodder here. Just because Epic stands to make an extra buck or two doesn't mean that their incentives are not aligned with small developers and consumers in this particular moment.

They are not. You cannot assume App Store service if all the income I meant all go to the developer only. If they fight for a lower cut may be. But 0! No.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#423

Apple is a monopoly. When Microsoft was investigated and fined for anti-trust behaviors, it hasn't engaged in this level of abuse.

Might be an unpopular opinion but I don’t think they are acting to the level of MSFT in the 90s. What MSFT did would be equivalent to Apple forcing everyone to use its apps and not allow any competing apps. Also recall that Jobs was pretty adamant about allowing third-party apps in the beginning. Now, do I think 30% is ridiculous in 2020? Yes. But it made sense a decade ago when having a half decent working app almos…

> What MSFT did would be equivalent to Apple forcing everyone to use its apps and not allow any competing apps.

Does Apple prohibiting apps from using any other payment processors than Apple's come close enough to equivalency to you? That's one of the key elements of the dispute here.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#424
What I find interesting is not so much this case but the globalization of the markets. With globalized markets you have near-monopolies which are so much more powerful than monopolies used to be.

So you want to sell an app? Well first you practically cannot install it "for security reasons" without being on either the Apple AppStore or the Android Play Store, which represent 99.9% of devices or so. (yes you can disable GPP, and side-load on android, or sign as a dev and side-load on Apple, neither of which make any practical sense if you're not a developer)

If you do not like their rules, you now need to make your own OS, Phone, distribute it and have your game on it. That's quite the step and why there are laws against monopolies.

The globalized monopolies use their leverage to exert pressure on governments, and it is very difficult to apply these laws without the company using a "globalized capitalism" as their own advantage, i.e. it will move everything it can to another country that will let it exploits it's customers and it's workforce (which is why all our stuff is made in China, India, etc. obviously, and tax HQ is generally in Ireland rather than USA and on so)

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#426
post #22
post #2

I wish every damn micro transaction app gets removed one day. Of course no one will do it but I simply hate everything about these apps forcing parents to pay small fees for stupid pixels because their kids begs them to do it. Sorry, nothing else new to add to the topic, just venting and have absolutely no sympathy to apps tricking kids to spend money on tiny cellphone games. My niece begged her mother to buy a roblo…

> I wish every damn micro transaction app gets removed one day. What’s the alternative? I’m in love with the micro transactions model because the alternative is experience destroyed by ads or high upfront fees. On the games I play I rarely buy anything, don’t see ads but their business is healthy and the games are fantastic and regularly updated with new content. I casually play Asphalt 9, SimCity BuildIt and PUBG, p…

the alternative is experience destroyed by ads or high upfront fees

My experience is exactly the opposite. IAPs encourage developers to make the default experience sufficiently broken (e.g. requiring absurd amounts of grinding) so that you'll pay to fix it.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#427

Apple is a monopoly. When Microsoft was investigated and fined for anti-trust behaviors, it hasn't engaged in this level of abuse.

I am not sure why this fallacy continues to be repeated in every Apple thread. Apple currently has 46% US market share [1] and 14% global market share [2]. This is far from monopoly power. By contrast, Microsoft had 95% market share during their antitrust suit. [3] [1] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh... [2] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share... [3] https://schola…

Look at their dollar share on app spending, which is what matters to app developers.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#428
post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

> I don't think Epic ever intended to release the new Fortnite season on Apple platforms.

Epic probably doesn't care much about Apple platforms.

80% of Fortnite players are on console. I doubt macOS accounts for more than 1-2%.

https://newzoo.com/insights/articles/newzoos-battle-royale-s...

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, supporting a brand as team sports is a thing like supporting a political party as team sports is. HN is, hopefully, better than most places on the internet as there are lots of people willing to decide each issue on its merits, and also recalibrate their positions continually in the light of events,

> Unfortunately, supporting a brand as team sports is a thing like supporting a political party as team sports is. My take is the exact opposite: this episode is an opportunity to air grievances regarding each company, which by themselves have amassed a bunch of reasons for customers and end users to dislike them. There are no good guys in this story, only bad guys whose evilness outstages the other's evilness.

> There are no good guys in this story, only bad guys whose evilness outstages the other's evilness.

I'm not a stakeholder in Apple or Epic. I don't possess products from either. That said, I'm inclined to view epic's actions here as closer to civil disobedience, specifically in that epic is playing the long game to prove their opinion that Apple's contractual terms are anti-competitive.

Because it maps so effectively to civil rights struggles for me and likely for others as well (sidebar — I'm not white), I can see why this topic gets pretty heated. It's not so much about evil v. evil as it is about one group feeling oppressed v. another feeling offended at (their team) being accused of oppression.

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