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United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

justice.gov

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Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#421

Post by cestith »

peteretep wrote: post #339
cwkoss wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowdens most fundamental job requirement was to uphold the US constitution. He tried to stop gross constitutional violations from within using the official processes and was ignored. He is the greatest American hero of our era for sacrificing his own freedom to protect the nation. The NSA employees who are 'just following orders' are little better than Nazi footsolders in 1940s Germany. Their continued violation of…

> Snowdens most fundamental job requirement was to uphold the US constitution This feels like one of those things that Americans say, that may not be true. Is this actually true? Do NSA employees state such an oath? Is defense of the constitution more important than defense of the nation if the two are in conflict? Happy to be persuaded that this is true, but feels pretty glib to a non-American.

The Constitution is the core of the nation, or we've lost the whole point.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#422

Post by makomk »

Retric wrote: post #355
skyyler wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow US politics. How would that help? Legitimate question.

Many suspect he is deeply in debt to and sustained by various Russian banks. A positive cash flow would dispel some of that concern. I personally doubt he is, but it’s a more reasonable concern considering how unwilling he is to disclose his financial situation.

For context, the main "Russian bank" that people suspect Trump of being deeply in debt to is Deutsche Bank. Releasing his tax returns wouldn't help with those concerns because they're already so tenuously related to the facts that any release would just supply more bits of information that could be spun somehow as proof of Russian ties.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#423

Post by peteretep »

cestith wrote: post #421
peteretep wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Snowdens most fundamental job requirement was to uphold the US constitution This feels like one of those things that Americans say, that may not be true. Is this actually true? Do NSA employees state such an oath? Is defense of the constitution more important than defense of the nation if the two are in conflict? Happy to be persuaded that this is true, but feels pretty glib to a non-American.

The Constitution is the core of the nation, or we've lost the whole point.

That's bizarre, given that many countries operate just fine without one.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#424

Post by cwkoss »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #417
cwkoss wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden repeatedly attempted to follow internal processes and was stonewalled. The most fundamental responsibility of his job was to uphold the US constitution. His bosses deserve to be charged with treason, which is why they are working so hard to attack him.

> Snowden repeatedly attempted to follow internal processes and was stonewalled. There is no evidence of this.

The only parties who could provide this evidence are govt agencies who are clearly not pleased with Snowden. Seems kind of silly to expect them to provide evidence to substantiate his claim.

In the absence of contrary evidence, we should take Snowden at his word because none of his releases have been discredited as fabrications and thats the only account we have of the situation.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#425

Post by cwkoss »

chii wrote: post #346
cwkoss wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most fundamental part of his job was to uphold the US constitution. After numerous attempts to stop the constitutional violations of the NSA from within, he chose to uphold the constitution rather than the orders of unelected power hungry spooks. Frankly, hundreds if not thousands of people within the NSA deserve to be charged with treason. I would be shocked if this actually happened, though.

Upholding the constitution is not a citizen's job. It is the supreme court's. You can invoke your constitutional rights as a citizen,but you don't get to enforce it on behalf of somebody else, nor do you as an individual, decide what action constitutes a violation.

Upholding the constitution is absolutely the job of public servants, which is why our country makes them take an oath. Not sure why you think otherwise.

CIA, NSA, Senators, all take this oath: “I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/3331

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#426

Post by cwkoss »

peteretep wrote: post #339
cwkoss wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowdens most fundamental job requirement was to uphold the US constitution. He tried to stop gross constitutional violations from within using the official processes and was ignored. He is the greatest American hero of our era for sacrificing his own freedom to protect the nation. The NSA employees who are 'just following orders' are little better than Nazi footsolders in 1940s Germany. Their continued violation of…

> Snowdens most fundamental job requirement was to uphold the US constitution This feels like one of those things that Americans say, that may not be true. Is this actually true? Do NSA employees state such an oath? Is defense of the constitution more important than defense of the nation if the two are in conflict? Happy to be persuaded that this is true, but feels pretty glib to a non-American.

This is the oath that all public servants take: CIA, NSA, military, senators, etc.

“I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/3331

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#427

Post by cwkoss »

vinceguidry wrote: post #369
peteretep wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Snowdens most fundamental job requirement was to uphold the US constitution This feels like one of those things that Americans say, that may not be true. Is this actually true? Do NSA employees state such an oath? Is defense of the constitution more important than defense of the nation if the two are in conflict? Happy to be persuaded that this is true, but feels pretty glib to a non-American.

It is not true. This is something I had to learn from people that have been in high-level roles in government. I will start with the history and purpose of constitutions. General guidelines to organize and plan governments around have existed since time immemorial. What makes modern constitutions special is that it specifies the idea of popular sovereignty , that it is the entirety of the population of a nation that…

I fundamentally disagree that secrecy is the foundation of national security.

Journalists have revealed state secrets countless times, and over and over the secret was kept to hide unjustifiable actions of government officials violating their oath of office and taking actions which harm national interests.

There is a role for keeping certain information temporarily secret (i.e. don't publish where the active missile silos are, current positions of US troops), but our government should not be in the business of torture, illegal murder, faking suicides, industrial sabotage, domestic propaganda, illegal surveillance, blackmail, sexual extortion... long list of evil things the clandestine services engage in.

We know US intelligence has engaged in these behaviors through our nations history. It seems naive to believe they've never used these methods against our own political leaders to consolidate power and avoid the appropriate legal consequences for their malfeasances. We have no assurance that the system for oversight has not been wholly captured.

All of these thing make our nation more vulnerable (it justifies other countries doing it to us) and we should not tolerate govt spooks feeling they have carte blanche to take immoral and illegal actions to preserve their own self interest. We are the most powerful nation in the world, we can do better, and it truly saddens me that you think these evils are necessary.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#428

Post by ryanlol »

Retric wrote: post #355
skyyler wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow US politics. How would that help? Legitimate question.

Many suspect he is deeply in debt to and sustained by various Russian banks. A positive cash flow would dispel some of that concern. I personally doubt he is, but it’s a more reasonable concern considering how unwilling he is to disclose his financial situation.

>Many suspect he is deeply in debt to and sustained by various Russian banks

Are there people who suspect this who are not qanon or similar nutjobs?

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#429

Post by dragonwriter »

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #291
justinmchase wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can he stop this without inviting criticisms of being a Russian asset or some such accusation?

The criticisms will occur at this point no matter what he does. I would actually bet he welcomes the talk as a distraction from his easy to prosecute crimes.

> I would actually bet he welcomes the talk as a distraction from his easy to prosecute crimes.

None of his crimes are easy to prosecute while he is in office; the distractions won't have much effect once he is not in office. So I doubt that that is exactly the issue.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#430

Post by vinceguidry »

kaybe wrote: post #419
vinceguidry wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not true. This is something I had to learn from people that have been in high-level roles in government. I will start with the history and purpose of constitutions. General guidelines to organize and plan governments around have existed since time immemorial. What makes modern constitutions special is that it specifies the idea of popular sovereignty , that it is the entirety of the population of a nation that…

Do you have a link for us?

https://www.quora.com/profile/Thierry-Etienne-Joseph-Rotty-2
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