My Family’s Slave • Hacker News Board

Re: My Family’s Slave

#421

Post by song » Wed, May 17, 2017, 8:03 AM UTC

vvdcect wrote: post #308

song wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've seen families in Malaysia and Singapore that really treated their housekeeper badly. In a lot of cases, they are not allowed to go out of the apartment either because of potential pregnancy or because they are scared of the housekeeper stealing things from them. They bring housekeepers from Indonesia and pay them very little. The housekeepers have to work a lot of hours and are pretty much treated as slaves…

I only can speak for malaysia and yes this issue doesn't get brought up much, it's quite sickening to be honest. What is even more interesting is that most of the housekeepers are hired by the middle class, the same middle class that is wants racial equality in malaysia..

Exactly, it's the cognitive dissonance of those people wanting racial equality: being open minded and then hiring housekeepers and treating them badly. That cognitive dissonance surprises me and shocks me.

I have no issue with people hiring housekeepers but the work conditions absolutely need to be decent. And if for some reason they feel that there's too much risk in being decent, then they shouldn't hire a live in housekeeper, they could also easily hire locals to help with some housework.

Of course, that's not everyone, I have some Malaysian friends who treated their live in housekeeper with respect, let her take some holidays and even helped her set up her own business when she went back to Indonesia. But, that's the exception rather than the norm.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#422

Post by achou » Wed, May 17, 2017, 8:04 AM UTC

tathougies wrote: post #391

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

> All of the work in a traditional mother's role, well it's usually uncompensated too. Sure it's a "labor of love" but it's also just a huge amount of work, for decades. An argument could be made that the entire capitalist system is built upon uncompensated labor. Just ask your mom. I mean the key difference here is the obvious one, which is that spouses have complete access to the other's money. period. If Lola had…

Consider what happens if one spouse loses a job and is forced to take one with half the pay. The spouse doing the work at home suddenly has to make do with less, even though their work has not really changed.

My point is not really about slavery, it is about how this example shows how much work there is and how difficult it is, and how we don't seem to account for it even in normal life.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#423

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 17, 2017, 8:04 AM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #212

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

It's like ... slavery-lite. Fundamentally what's the difference between Lola's role and a common role of a wife a hundred years ago?* And second – a dangerous question – is it necessarily wrong? I ask not to lead one to believe to think that it isn't, certainly there are aspects which are unquestionable immoral, but is there room for such a social construct? More importantly, answering why not in a robust way could m…

[deleted]

Re: My Family’s Slave

#424

Post by quirkafleeg » Wed, May 17, 2017, 8:05 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #404

quirkafleeg wrote: post #369

(Hate doing this, but as it's not a typo but a common mistake that may spread) The noun is advice . Advise is a verb. (AFAIK this isn't a British/American difference.)

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14355449 and marked it off-topic.

This is bizarre. Informative, factual posts that are not rude or insulting are "off topic" now?

It wasn't a grammar Nazi post or about a typo, advice/advise is a common and easily corrected error that should be corrected, and I did so as politely as possible. Most people would appreciate it (I know I would).

All you've done by removing a single post (with multiple upvotes) from the thread is increase the chances that other people will copy/make the same mistake.

Edit: in fact it's even more baffling than I first thought, you didn't even remove it, you simply moved it to a position where some people, if they get that far, will not understand what it's about.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#425

Post by PhasmaFelis » Wed, May 17, 2017, 8:07 AM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #212

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

It's like ... slavery-lite. Fundamentally what's the difference between Lola's role and a common role of a wife a hundred years ago?* And second – a dangerous question – is it necessarily wrong? I ask not to lead one to believe to think that it isn't, certainly there are aspects which are unquestionable immoral, but is there room for such a social construct? More importantly, answering why not in a robust way could m…

Having a servant who is paid but is well-cared-for is problematic, but not necessarily wrong. Having a servant who is abused daily, made to sleep on the floor, kept away from her family, forced to work when sick, denied medical care for no good reason, and not allowed to leave is blatantly obviously wrong. There's nothing but physical/sexual violence distinguishing this from the horror stories of the pre-Civil War American South.

That much at least is pretty black and white, and even 100 years ago that was not the default state of most wives, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, and I'm certainly not sure what you think is "lite" here.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#426

Post by Kholo » Wed, May 17, 2017, 8:09 AM UTC

Mz wrote: post #162

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

I have seen career women kind of jokingly say "I need a wife." I was struck by the fact that Alex's mother, whom some people here are vilifying, managed to have a serious career like a man because she had Lola at home to do all the "women's work." This is mostly being overlooked in discussion and I didn't know how to bring it up myself. I appreciate you remarking upon it.

Camille Paglia is a someone worth paying attention too on the changing roles of men and women, on what we loose and what we gain - https://www.c-span.org/video/?425137-2/camille-paglia-discus...

Re: My Family’s Slave

#427

Post by achou » Wed, May 17, 2017, 8:09 AM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #377

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

> An argument could be made that the entire capitalist system is built upon uncompensated labor. Just ask your mom. My mom grew up during the Cold War. I haven't asked her specifically but I'm pretty sure she would just be confused by your comment. Women in the Soviet Union didn't get compensated either for domestic duties, like spending an hour standing in line to buy food staples.

I probably should have said "all economic systems since the dawn of time" but I took a shortcut that covers most of the modern world's economy instead. I certainly didn't say that communism was somehow different or better in this regard.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#428

Post by PhasmaFelis » Wed, May 17, 2017, 8:11 AM UTC

Mz wrote: post #162

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

I have seen career women kind of jokingly say "I need a wife." I was struck by the fact that Alex's mother, whom some people here are vilifying, managed to have a serious career like a man because she had Lola at home to do all the "women's work." This is mostly being overlooked in discussion and I didn't know how to bring it up myself. I appreciate you remarking upon it.

I'm not vilifying her because she found a way of succeeding in male-dominated world. I'm vilifying her because she kept a slave that she abused horribly. This story could have been a heartwarming tale of a non-traditional family if the parents weren't basically monsters towards Lola.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#429

Post by achou » Wed, May 17, 2017, 8:12 AM UTC

Camillo wrote: post #258

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

Women actually control the majority of discretionary spending, and not because they make more money. The fact that there is no contract does not mean the work is not compensated.

Needless to say, spending and income are two different things. This is very easy to see if, for example, one spouse loses their job and the other continues to do exactly the same housework and child rearing -- but now can spend much less.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#430

Post by posguy » Wed, May 17, 2017, 8:14 AM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #383

creepydata wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>neither men nor women really have the option of just "being a housewife." We kind of both have to work....in most marriages, both people have to work. Says who? Sure if you take out a fat mortgage and car loans that require two incomes to repay then, sure, you need two incomes. But you can also just choose to live in a smaller house and drive cheaper cars instead. The issue is the lifestyle inflation that comes with…

I think you are typing this sitting at your comfortable 1% Valley workplace. Nowhere in the world does $55K a year before tax provide anywhere like 'good life'. It means endless misery and generational psychological poverty passed on to your children. Only reason of doing it is if your desire to exert psychological pressure on your wife is greater than even desire to consume. It simply doesn't sound healthy, and it i…

Huh? You could easily live a comfortable life on $55k a year in say Tacoma, WA or Eugene, OR with a wife and a kid. I've earned less than $45k a year living on my own in Seattle not even 5 years ago, and despite shopping at expensive stores, eating out daily, and spending quite a bit on other random stuff, I always was able to avoid going into the red financially without watching my spending much at all.

Even in Seattle, I know of married couples who spend under $2k a month total, inclusive of rent, utilities, eating out, buying random stuff, etc while earning north of $120k each. Sure, its a meek lifestyle, but it can be quite fulfilling to know you aren't a consumerist whore.

If money = happiness, you are apt to lead a really sad life!