Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights • Hacker News Board

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#421

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 3:10 PM UTC

addicted wrote: post #416

jpatokal wrote: post #133

The Big 4 Middle East/Gulf airlines (Emirates, Etihad, Qatar, Turkish) have been giving legacy US carriers a lot of grief lately, since they're both cheaper and better on essentially all counts, so I can't help but wonder if they have their finger in the pie here. Few businessmen will opt to fly long-haul if they can't use their laptops, and they're specifically targeting 9 airlines here, not just airports or countri…

This seems like the most likely explanation to me. Abu Dhabi security was far more stringent than anything I have been through in Europe, (and ironically Brussels, when I was in the Brussels airport in transit when it was attacked).

[deleted]

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#422

Post by peterwwillis » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 3:12 PM UTC

stevenwoo wrote: post #45

peterwwillis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually one of the few credible attacks a hijacker could perform, and reducing the size of the batteries (assuming most cellphones don't have 72Whr 6-cell batteries) is a practical method to prevent such an attack in the cabin. However, it doesn't seem to rule out the exact same thing happening in the cargo hold with a timer. It's less stupid than water restrictions.

The rationale for water restrictions seems OK to me on the face of it. It's a PIA for traveling. http://blog.tsa.gov/2008/02/more-on-liquid-rules-why-we-do-t...

> Was this a real threat? Yes, there was a very serious plot to blow up planes using liquid explosives in bombs that would have worked to bring down aircraft.

Yeah. With Nitroglycerin, the stuff that explodes when you move it too fast. You could still bring this on a plane undetected in 3.4oz containers. And you can check a bag with much larger amounts.

But there was not just "a plot" to blow up a plane with liquid explosives. There was a successful attack on a South Korean plane that killed everyone on board with liquid explosives, used in 1989. Yet they don't even mention this, probably because the policy was put in place after 9/11, partly as a fear tactic to get US citizens to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, partly to prevent fear from ruining the airline industry, and partly to support the new jobs program called the TSA (which was also created after 9/11).

Without fear and extensive unnecessary security measures, the TSA would not be the size it is, nor would it get the investment it gets. If you don't believe TSA is primarily a jobs program, consider that according to NPR in 2006, a government report showed that Research & Development programs were delayed when TSA funds were redirected in order to pay for personnel costs for screeners. And the TSA receives 8 billion dollars a year.

There are many ways to detect liquid explosives. By removing them from their container (or requiring specific kinds of transparent containers) and using laser scatter plotting or microwaves, or by detecting vapor emissions from an opened bottle, for example. But nobody cared about them when planes were bombed using them, and they're still not using any of these methods, 17 years after the policies were put in place. These policies are just tools used to control people.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#423

Post by emanreus » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 3:19 PM UTC

mgbmtl wrote: post #366

emanreus wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to admit some border crossing incidents[1] are what I would imagine entering North Korea would be like, not the US. [1][10min audio] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDYMw1p8s9M

As someone from Canada, that guy was being a total dick, very aggressive, mansplaining the agent, which isn't surprising that it would trigger the customs agent. He would have had the same response from an agent at the border in Canada. Ex: "what shops are you planning to go to". It's fine to answer "I don't know yet". They're just testing behaviour. If you start being defensive or aggressive, pretend to know their j…

On second thought, the cynic in me is saying you're just laying the groundwork for your next encounter with customs agents in case you have to hand over your online accounts :)

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#424

Post by stuaxo » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 3:29 PM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #379

TillE wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) We already have screening processes for that. 2) So the bomb is now in the hold. That's not really much of an improvement.

Remote or timed detonation is trickier than manual detonation. I'm not familiar with how checked luggage is screened, but it's possible that it is potentially controlled by the US for flights heading to the US, or otherwise more reliable. Again: > It's a particular concern at these airports because of screening issues and the possibility of terrorists infiltrating authorized airport personnel, the official said.

Those guys were doing it non-manually when nokias were the phone of choice, and back in the day the IRA probably used plain clocks, it's not going to be much extra hassle for them.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#425

Post by GuiA » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 3:31 PM UTC

samirillian wrote: post #396

hysan wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Closer and closer? How about it's already happened. I just visited some of my friends in Japan, many of whom wanted to visit me in the US once their children got a bit older, and they all said they are straight up frightened of simply trying to enter the US. These are some of the most upstanding people you can meet with jobs like being teachers, government employees, etc. They are the last people who should be afraid…

Here's the thing about leaving Japan: it's always way more dangerous than staying in Japan. US homicide rate is like 10x higher. I'd bet your "upstanding" friends have layers of reservations about visiting.

Japanese crime rates are underreported, and in reality most likely very similar to northern European countries in term of safety (and many other things, such as birth rate, another oft repeated misconception).

Popular culture likes to portray Japan as a weird outlier country- but that's only if you compare it to the US. If you include the aforementioned European countries in the comparison, the US is the weird country.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#426

Post by GuiA » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 3:34 PM UTC

wowsig wrote: post #333

GuiA wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. And also people not having devices on their person means they can't quickly text friends/family if they get detained/mistreated/etc. It seems like we're getting closer and closer to being in a situation where people who can should avoid going to the US at all, and make their reasoning known. Ie, refuse to give talks, attend conferences, etc. in the US.

The report said that cellphones are allowed. Agree with the avoiding US part. I'm currently reading a book on the state of physics under the third reich and the parallels on the state looking inwardly are chilling.

What's the book?

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#427

Post by SerLava » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 3:37 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #349

TeMPOraL wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's put it this way: 9/11 achieved exactly what was intended - it sent the US into a tailspin, and it's dragging the rest of the first world down with it. The current condition of US politics wrt. terrorism is best described as acute case of autoimmune disease. The damage of overreaction being much, much worse than the original attack. That doesn't mean Bin Laden won - history is not a game, the round didn't end ye…

I'd actually argue that Bin Laden failed terribly at his stated goal - he wanted to make Americans stop for a second and consider why they are being targeted, and then hopefully discover all the atrocities their own government has inflicted on Bin Laden's people, and well, hopefully revolt. But America in general didn't spend even a second considering this. https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/wcpls/z/c5cabqo

Well I suppose, in a sense, it would be wrong to significantly change our behavior towards alignment with OBL's goals. That would probably trigger a lot more terrorism.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#428

Post by diminoten » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 3:38 PM UTC

salesguy222 wrote: post #342

diminoten wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/324846-feds-tempora... The subtle arrogance in you asking for the threat Intel is utterly astonishing.

I appreciate the link, because the one I read said that the ban was indefinite, but that the airlines had 96 hours to implement. I also respectfully need to say that any arrogance you perceived from me was something you were reading into in my opinion, rather than something in my words that directly showed arrogance. I exist to provide logic based and relatively emotionless arguments, not too much cynicism or ill wil…

> I exist to provide logic based and relatively emotionless arguments

Bullshit.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#429

Post by ConceptJunkie » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 3:41 PM UTC

GuiA wrote: post #425

samirillian wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing about leaving Japan: it's always way more dangerous than staying in Japan. US homicide rate is like 10x higher. I'd bet your "upstanding" friends have layers of reservations about visiting.

Japanese crime rates are underreported, and in reality most likely very similar to northern European countries in term of safety (and many other things, such as birth rate, another oft repeated misconception). Popular culture likes to portray Japan as a weird outlier country- but that's only if you compare it to the US. If you include the aforementioned European countries in the comparison, the US is the weird countr…

And the U.S. violence rates are really skewed. If you remove about half a dozen large cities, the U.S. rate for homicides, etc., is much more in line with the rest of the first world.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#430

Post by saganus » Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 3:46 PM UTC

DrJokepu wrote: post #418

saganus wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would the border agents know it's a wiped device? Because it's missing everything and seems like a new phone? What if I actually bought a new cheap phone because I'm afraid of getting robbed abroad, and even tell the agent? I ask because I would think that being afraid of losing your expensive phone on a leisure trip is common enough and harmless enough (and totally real reason) that it wouldn't provoke or trigge…

If they're searching your phone, it's likely that you're already in secondary inspection. At that point if you're an alien they're already suspecting that you're inadmissible and they are trying to build a case. They will ask a lot of questions in secondary inspection. If they search your phone and find that it's wiped, they will ask about it and they will expect a convincing explanation. CBP officers working in seco…

This is definitely very scary and I didn't mean to say that I would try to outsmart them because as you say, they do this for a living and I'm not a professional liar/spy.

However I think my case still applies in the sense that I would expect a lot of people to also buy a burner phone for a vacation trip just as a way to avoid loss in the event of a robbery, instead of as a way to try to outsmart border agents, so I would hope I would not be alone in giving them this reason as to why my phone is clean.

You raise a good argument though. If I'm already in secondary inspection I guess anything you give them or fail to give them will in any case be used against me, basically depending on the mood of the agent at that time.

I guess an interesting statistic to know (not that government would publish it willingly...) would be how many people that went through secondary inspection where denied access and how many of them were not.