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The woes of Windows 10

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Re: The woes of Windows 10

#421

Post by Nition »

grogenaut wrote: post #394
Nition wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd understand that more if it was all esoteric power-user type stuff that was missing in the new system. But stuff like mouse pointer speed? Apparently Misrosoft has said that they do want to drop the old-style control panel eventually. I realise it's a huge job, but it feels very like a half-finished feature right now.

Mouse speed IS power user stuff. Poll the general populace, what percent actually know about mouse pointer speed or that you can adjust it. back in 2002 I went around bumping everyone's screen resolution from vga in college because it hurt my sole. at least 20% of people got pissed at me for "fucking up their settings". Almost all eventually came back and said "I can't read my whole doc, show me that thing again." Po…

You'd also have to make the case that the things that did make the cut to get into the new-style interface are less Power User-y than pointer speed though. Admittedly they're usually simple stuff, but is e.g. switching the mouse wheel option between "several lines" and "whole screen" really less of a power option than pointer speed?

Re: The woes of Windows 10

#422

Post by Jaruzel »

I'm not a a massive fan of Windows 10, so I'm certainly not trying to sell it, but here are some takeaways:

1. After holding out until December 2016, and only really using Windows 10 on dev machines/VMs , I finally threw caution to the wind an attempted to upgrade my very heavily loaded (software wise) main Windows 7 machine to Windows 10. Upgrade went fine, absolutely zero issues, and everything still worked 100% afterwards. No-one was more surprised than I was about this. I actually think it's because the hardware is a brand name (HP) desktop, and not a self build.

2. I've turned everything off I don't wont, all the privacy snoops; Cortana is gone completely; and the OneDrive icon does nothing.

3. Since early Windows 7, I switched to a menu bar type launcher that sits on-top at the top edge of the screen, it's populated with links to everything I use. I never click on the start menu, so it's bad behavior and stupid tiles don't really bother me. Screenshot: https://www.weegeeks.com/upload/ApplicationBar-2014-09-29.pn...

4. The forced updates really irritate me. It's my PC why am I being dictated to on this?

5. VB6 apps still work without issue! (LOL!)

6. By comparison, whose bright idea was it not to include .NET runtime 2.0-3.5 by default? This leaves a schism for older apps - Run fine on Windows 7 and 8.1, but needs the runtime to (try) and auto install on Windows 10, or recompile the app targeting .NET 4.0+ and run fine on Windows 10, but completely fail on Windows 7/8.1 with a dialog saying the runtime is missing. Arrrgh.

Overall, I'm living with it, mainly because I've banished all the bad bits, so now it's doing what a good OS should - support me, but also not get in my way. I'm not sure I could use Windows 10 in it's default state though, which is why I'm slowly moving towards a completely customised shell (once I find/write one I like).

Edit: Forgot to mention - if you can lay your hands on it, have a look at 'Windows 10 2016 LTSB' edition - it's designed for corporates who don't want all the consumer crap, so a lot of the stupid stuff is not installed by default. It also ONLY accepts security updates, and refuses any updated that are 'feature updates'. Downside, it needs a KMS keyserver for activation.

Re: The woes of Windows 10

#423

Post by JdeBP »

wallacoloo wrote: post #347
cr0sh wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arch isn't that hard to set up - I'll agree with you there. Where it falls down, though, is when you need to install something where there isn't a package for it. Now, of course, you could just go old-school and "manual install" whatever you want. But let's say you didn't want to do that, because you got tired of having a system full of cruft due to all these funky pieces of software scattered about the system that t…

> It seemed to me to create an install package for a piece of software, the process (according to the docs) was to install the software "manually" and keep track of where everything goes. Then, once you have done that (and the software is running fine), you are supposed to create your package manifesto (or whatever it was called) that tells the system how to install it, then take all the parts and bundle them up (as…

cr0sh posited that the application being packaged was not in source form. So perhaps the hugely misleading thing is to argue against xem based upon how one packages up things that are in source form. (-:

Re: The woes of Windows 10

#424

Post by JdeBP »

cr0sh wrote: post #124
afghanPower wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get (maybe) your argument when it comes to Windows 7 -> Windows 10, but I think you're overestimating how hard it is to get up and running with Arch Linux. Following an Arch install tutorial shouldn't take anyone here on Hackernews more than 2 hours to get their DE, networking etc. up and going. You should try it. It's fun!

Arch isn't that hard to set up - I'll agree with you there. Where it falls down, though, is when you need to install something where there isn't a package for it. Now, of course, you could just go old-school and "manual install" whatever you want. But let's say you didn't want to do that, because you got tired of having a system full of cruft due to all these funky pieces of software scattered about the system that t…

In fairness, that's pretty much how you are going to have to package a binaries-only software with most package management systems. Install the binaries. Make a package description of those binaries.

It's manifest, by the way.

Re: The woes of Windows 10

#425

Post by executesorder66 »

tdkl wrote: post #261
bayeslives wrote: post #178

I've been using both Windows (work) and Linux (home) on the desktop for many years. I far prefer Linux (I tried many distros, settled on Arch and Mint now). Package management and window management is way better in Linux. To name just a few. To me, Windows10 is not better than Windows7. The package management is still a mess. Forced updates, no rollbacks, reboots, you name it. Permissions are also strange: why are ad…

>The package management is still a mess. If you mean for system updates I'd agree, but software package management is a shit show on Linux and it shows why less people bother writing software with & why Electron is popular there. What's more easier then clicking an .exe ?

You don't just click the .exe

You first have to open a browser, then find the sotware's website. Then find the download page, then download it. Then open explorer to where the .exe was downloaded. Then double click it. Then click next a bunch of times. And if the software's dependencies are not bundled in the installer, then you have to redo this whole process again.

On Linux you just open your terminal and execute a single command.

Re: The woes of Windows 10

#426

Post by Mithaldu »

E6300 wrote: post #392
princeb wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dx12 doesn't work with 8

The benchmarks I've seen don't really point to DX12 as being an optimization.

It's not about optimization, it's about the fact that games will come out that support only that because the game devs don't want to support multiple graphics APIs.

Re: The woes of Windows 10

#427

Post by Mithaldu »

E6300 wrote: post #404
grogenaut wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

being partially sarcastic: who could stand 8? as much as you hate the features you have to turn off... 8 was much much worse. 8.1 also really bad. 10 is like 7 that works way better. I also really like my work win10 where corp it has stripped all of the garbage for me, except that stupid "welcome" screen, which you used to be able to skip by task managering. Hello! I know windows is ready to go... I know you love you…

Eh. 8.1 works fine for me. I get the performance improvements over 7, but I also get to control when to apply updates. The start screen was an eyesore at first, but I actually kind of like it now. The Windows 10 "start menu" is much worse, because it's exactly the same as the start screen but way smaller I have to use 10 at work because I'm working on a driver that I need Windows 8 or newer to write it and the only H…

Frankly, i'm in grogenaut's boat. Windows 8 was a disaster like ME, with some improvements, but those invented half-baked or with too much opinions.

Win 10 is the first time i considered upgrading from Win 7, and it ended up wonderful.

Re: The woes of Windows 10

#428

Post by Crosseye_Jack »

marcosdumay wrote: post #218
distantsounds wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can remove just about all the tiles and extra bloat from the Start Menu, bringing on a more familiar return of what it used to be. Just right-click and 'remove' every tile until there's nothing left.

What you can't do, no matter what you try, is to make the Start Menu show all the programs you have installed. But attaching things there is nice. Even better than the KDE menu.

Do you mean the "Show app list in Start Menu" Option?

I can't remember if its on or off by default (If its off then I switched it on long ago and can't remember) but on my setup with the option on (settings -> Personalization -> Start -> Show app list in Start Menu. Just in case it is turn off by default) I get a scrolling list on the left hand side of the start menu under "Most Used" (I have show recently added apps turned off) that feels like it behaves just like all programs has on Here's a screen shot of what it looks like when I press the start button - http://i.imgur.com/0VdDm7v.jpg

Just like What I do find annoying compared to <=7 is the ability to right click and just remove things from the list (perhaps its an option in group policies and I've just not found it, tbh I've not looked) without going to the folder I included above and deleting the shortcut.

Re: The woes of Windows 10

#429

Post by tdkl »

executesorder66 wrote: post #425
tdkl wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The package management is still a mess. If you mean for system updates I'd agree, but software package management is a shit show on Linux and it shows why less people bother writing software with & why Electron is popular there. What's more easier then clicking an .exe ?

You don't just click the .exe You first have to open a browser, then find the sotware's website. Then find the download page, then download it. Then open explorer to where the .exe was downloaded. Then double click it. Then click next a bunch of times. And if the software's dependencies are not bundled in the installer, then you have to redo this whole process again. On Linux you just open your terminal and execute a…

>On Linux you just open your terminal and execute a single command.

Lmao, yes speculating that it includes that certain software package or that it's the latest version.

That burden is on the developer (if there's no maintainer) which has to waste time packaging same thing for X distros. Windows developer uploads the .exe to the web and he's done.

Re: The woes of Windows 10

#430

Post by marcosdumay »

nikanj wrote: post #368
marcosdumay wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't really get why I got looking. It's an acknowledged bug. MS isn't even calling it a feature. It's just about as old as Windows 10, and unfixed.

Assuming they're honest, and in their defence, MS has been much more honest and transparent recently: could you imagine being the one poor soul who's been working on that bug for almost two years now? People keep reporting that bug, and you keep ruling out possible explanations.

I've indeed seen that kind of thing happen, so yes, there can be some poor soul doing this. But it's still more likely that MS doesn't think Windows not letting you run your programs is a high priority problem.
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