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Talking to strangers at the gym

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Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#411

Post by mathgladiator »

et-al wrote: post #239
nozzlegear wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I avoided this book for a long time. for some reason I got it in my head that it's a sort of red pilled book that teaches you how to manipulate people. FWIW this book came out in the 1930s, long before "red pilling" was a thing. I've read it before and it's not about manipulating people unless you consider being a genuinely sincere person to be manipulative in some way. It's a good book, if a little outdated, and,…

I agree with you this was not Dale Carnegie's intent when he wrote the book, but alexmuresan probably takes issue because the "red pilling" crowd have used Carnegie's advice to manipulate people. Personally, salespeople have randomly complimented me and repeated my name over and over, and on the receiving end it weirded me out. So the problem is that in certain situations there is an overarching "what did you want to…

The inverse is true as well. I read it and thought it was great, but it also put me more on the defense as well. It is kind of sad how I can see relationships going from near symmetric to any kind of assymetry and it shocks me how many times they fall apart because I set limits (and not at all unreasonable limits). Too many many tread water, so i get it but... yeesh.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#412

Post by cubefox »

gjulianm wrote: post #380
philangist wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hey sorry, I've got some things on my mind right now and can't really talk. Have a nice day though". That takes less than 10 seconds to say, let's you protect your time and peace of mind, and as a bonus there's no need for fuming, blaming, and judging that the other person won't ever even know about.

The people likely to talk to strangers unprompted are also likely to ignore those kind of messages. Anything that can lead to further conversation can be used (like "oh, what's worrying you?") so actually politely nodding and smiling without giving any footing to further conversation works better than being assertive.

> The people likely to talk to strangers unprompted are also likely to ignore those kind of messages.

No, that obviously false. They might be more likely, but they are certainly not likely.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#413

Post by cubefox »

Aurornis wrote: post #36
outime wrote: post #21

If you want to build a relationship with someone, try asking them for a small favor rather than offering one first* (or, for example, making random small talk about the weather). Most people love to help and feel useful. If you're new to the gym or want to learn a new exercise, you can simply ask for help. It's something we'naturally do if we weren't so afraid of approaching strangers. *just paraphrasing a famous quo…

I have heard this repeated across books and podcasts for years but I’ve only seen it fail in person. Maybe it might not fail if the “favor” isn’t really a favor at all but instead something almost completely effortless like asking for the time or directions to the bathroom. However when someone is at the gym and another stranger asks them to stop and do a favor that takes time out of their gym visit it’s just annoyin…

> I have heard this repeated across books and podcasts for years but I’ve only seen it fail in person.

Counterpoint: I have seen it succeed in person. Asking for a little help is a great ice breaker.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#414

Post by TFNA »

cubefox wrote: post #410
TFNA wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they might think you're hitting on them (God forbid; nothing could be more evil than attraction) You can find legions of people, particularly women, who do not want to be hit on unless they already find the other person attractive. Being hit on by an unattractive person may even quality for them as something akin to danger, already along the spectrum towards stalking or assault. Has nothing to do with being termina…

> Being hit on by an unattractive person may even quality for them as something akin to danger, already along the spectrum towards stalking or assault. Just trying to initiate a conversation with someone simply is not stalking nor assault, even if it is perceived that way. Their "perception" is mistaken in this case. > HN is an international forum, and while people are reporting increased loneliness in many countries…

> Their "perception" is mistaken in this case.

It’s their right to decide how they perceive being approached by a stranger. And most of society is going to empathize with them and their feeling of unsafety, not with the stranger approaching them.

> even in your culture, public conversations significantly decreased in the past 30 years

The culture in my country never really had many “public conversations” from one stranger to another. This is something that has been noted by foreign travelers for generations now, at least back to the nineteenth or eighteenth centuries. What has changed are that the substantial family and institutional bonds I mentioned earlier have declined.

> do you think that gyms in your culture work differently?

They definitely do. This has already been mentioned by various people from different countries in this thread.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#415

Post by dweekly »

nozzlegear wrote: post #112
alexmuresan wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I avoided this book for a long time. for some reason I got it in my head that it's a sort of red pilled book that teaches you how to manipulate people. I know it's very shallow on my side, but I somehow crystallized this opinion based on a few acquaintances that claimed to read it and instead that they include the name of a person they just met in every sentence because it made that person like them more. Your commen…

> I avoided this book for a long time. for some reason I got it in my head that it's a sort of red pilled book that teaches you how to manipulate people. FWIW this book came out in the 1930s, long before "red pilling" was a thing. I've read it before and it's not about manipulating people unless you consider being a genuinely sincere person to be manipulative in some way. It's a good book, if a little outdated, and,…

My read on the book was "humans are really good at telling if you genuinely care about them or not and will respond well to that, so you should genuinely care about the people around you, and good things will result from that overall, especially if you're not super mercenary about it."

Bill & Ted said it most pithily: be excellent to each other.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#416

Post by hn111 »

nasir wrote: post #140
plewd wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was simply not much I could work with (what I thought at the time). This has been my big blocker keeping me from talking to most people. I feel quite adept socially once I get going, but I can usually only get to that point through mutual interests or a solid conversation topic to kick off from. I seem to usually psyche myself out because most starters feels too fake or unsubstantive. Compliments make sense,…

Even though typing them out may make them stupid but here are a few examples thinking out loud. Remember the body language is quite important and as you do more you start feeling more comfortable in your skin. - Waiting for an elevator that never comes with two strangers. What I may say: I guess we'd be camping here tonight. Do you have your tent with you? - Embarrassing moment: I hit my head lightly to something in…

Even written these jokes made me smile, you’re a natural!

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#417

Post by [deleted] »

hnlmorg wrote: post #398
wordpressed wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying this is you, but i've also ran into a lot of those people, almost always men, often in their late 30s or 40s, going around talking to everyone cracking jokes and thinking they're the live of the party, while everyone else is just silently annoyed by them.

That’s a depressingly negative way to view people who are just trying to break the isolation of modern life.

[deleted]

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#418

Post by b65e8bee43c2ed0 »

hnlmorg wrote: post #398
wordpressed wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying this is you, but i've also ran into a lot of those people, almost always men, often in their late 30s or 40s, going around talking to everyone cracking jokes and thinking they're the live of the party, while everyone else is just silently annoyed by them.

That’s a depressingly negative way to view people who are just trying to break the isolation of modern life.

[flagged]

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#419

Post by gjulianm »

cubefox wrote: post #412
gjulianm wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people likely to talk to strangers unprompted are also likely to ignore those kind of messages. Anything that can lead to further conversation can be used (like "oh, what's worrying you?") so actually politely nodding and smiling without giving any footing to further conversation works better than being assertive.

> The people likely to talk to strangers unprompted are also likely to ignore those kind of messages. No, that obviously false. They might be more likely, but they are certainly not likely.

I don’t think it’s false, much less obviously false. On one hand I have my personal experience about it, on the other you can see there’s only a small range in the “I want a conversation” scale where they want it enough to ignore the nonverbal signs that the person doesn’t want to talk but not enough to ignore the verbal ones.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#420

Post by alecco »

ignoramous wrote: post #408
alecco wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the things I like about this is that OP is giving people genuine compliments without any particular agenda. IMHO that is as fake as a car salesman. Mature, cultured people will say thank you and think " what a nuisance ". I prefer being open about my motives. Smart people appreciate truth over compliments. And if the dumb/immature get offended, good riddance. I used to be a big fan of HtWFaIP, but eventually…

> Mature, cultured people will say thank you and think "what a nuisance" The world is a mirror, forever reflecting what you are doing within yourself.

I hope you enjoyed the hormonal reward you got when you copy-pasted that amazingly deep proverb.

Let's expand on it a bit. Is the world a mirror to street salespeople? Is the world a mirror to stalkers? To sociopaths?

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