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The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

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Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#411
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you want to use tap-to-pay systems.

Tap a bankcard? You can even tape it to the back of your phone

Having cards on back of phone triggers the phones NFC reader for the cards ship, causing apps to launch or other messages to appear on screen.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#412
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this makes room in the market for some simpler device for payments. Something like a wearable that you can tap-to-pay and has the signed software attenuation but nothing else so you can't be tracked using GPS.

that exists. It's called Felica, and it's used all over Japan. train passes, vending machine, convenience stores, many restaurants. Built into iphone and a few androids. Note that the payments are tied to a card/chip but you can (at the moment) buy new card no id/registration required

Nice. We had this in the 90s in Holland. It was called chipknip. (Knip is old slang for wallet).

It was really like digital cash, the money was loaded onto a chip. So if you lost it you lost all the money. There was no pin code either, just like a real wallet. Unfortunately it was not really anonymous because the Dutch government are really into surveillance.

It didn't really last very long, it was only popular for parking machines. In those days 2G was expensive so validating transactions online was rare.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#413
post #404

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

we should save the idea of general computing. fuck cell phones.

Cell phones are fine. It’s their locked-down non-open nature and Apple, Google, Samsung that make cell phones not general computing devices.

I really hope we can convince enough people to care about general computing.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#414

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

> The biggest "evil"

No need for the scare quotes. Forcefully removing people's agency over themselves is pretty much the definition of evil. We do not hurt criminals as punishment anymore, in the civilized age, but we still lock them up.

Now, of course we should not equate physical prisons and digital prisons in any other way, but we should absolutely call both forms of imprisonment evil, plain and simple.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use your credit card

And adding to this: using the card gives me peace of mind because it never runs out of battery. If I only used my phone for payments and it died while I was out, I would be screwed. Can't call a friend, can't pay for transit, I guess I'm walking for hours to get home? Since I use the card to pay, if my phone dies, the worst thing that happens to me is I might need to look at a physical map to figure out which train t…

Since 2018 you can still use tap when your iPhone battery has died. It works for transit passes, keys, and some payment methods. They call it Express Cards and it will continue to work for ~4 hours after your phone has died. iPhone's keep a "Power Reserve" for NFC when dead.

https://support.apple.com/guide/security/express-cards-with-...

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evil is enshrining other people's choices into law, unnecessarily. There was never going to be anything preventing non-technical folks from buying iPhones. They can and should have what they like. Why should there be a law that forces that same compromise onto anyone who can only afford a single device and needs to use it to access their bank?

Because when you don't do this, people get scammed out of money. If there is a series of buttons you can press to circumvent the anti-scam measures, then the scammers simply walk you through pressing those buttons. If you cover them in giant warning labels the scammers simply add explanations into their patter. The buttons must physically not exist, for gullible people to not get scammed out of money. The next respon…

Or rig screens such that the buttons do not appear to be what they are. I've seen many a install-this-app ads where cancel isn't cancel.

The average user simply does not have the skill to determine real from fake and any heuristics to do so will be defeated by the scammers. You have to be able to understand what could be done with access, not what's "intended" with the access.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#417

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

I think, practically, everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 (and a new one every few years ...), to be their locked-down "agent" for using financial or government services. It's not for you, it's for the government/banks, it is their agent for talking to you. Kinda weird, if you think about it. But that seems to be the way it's heading.

> perhaps $300

Maybe in US. In Vietnam, $300 is the average monthly salary, and the minimum wage is around $150. Probably the majority of people don't have a primary phone worth more than $300.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#418

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

Well it has always been the case with the mobile telephony IC. Way too dangerous to leave it open to hackers.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are locked out of the economy? Not that it excuses the withdrawal of user agency. But I've never used a banking app on my phone before. Anything important I still like to do on a desktop. Though how much longer that's safe, who knows. Apple's model of requiring their permission to run code on your own device will probably spread to everything given enough time.

Much of the world uses mobile payment apps instead of credit or debit cards. Some banks allow a setting that using a card can require a ping to the banking app for verification of the transaction. I don’t know if it’s legal to turn down cash payments in Vietnam, but some vendors may only accept digital payments. I guess you could take your laptop out at the restaurant and in the taxi to pay. It seems a little strange…

I guess I take credit and debit cards for granted. Surely the rest of the world had some solution before smartphones, though. Hopefully the US doesn't descend into needlessly using the phone as a middleman as the norm.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned in another post: By 2026, you'll need two phones. My current setup: 1) An unmodified iPhone SE (2022 model) with OS support until 2032. This runs all my authentication, banking, health, etc. It is in airplane mode 99% of the time unless I need it. 2) The second is a Pixel 9a with Graphene OS for daily use, routing and internet access. This is expensive, but I found it to be the only viable solution to…

> This is expensive, but I found it to be the only viable solution to this problem. Is it really? £150 on backmarket for a phone which will last 10 years doesn't feel expensive. Makes sense to me to run any banking on a secure device anyway.

How is a pixel with grapheneos not a secure device?

Ps no it's not rooted but it won't pass full play integrity so it will usually be treated as such.

Also, a properly configured root is not a weakness just like having a computer where you don't log in as admin unless you really need to can be just fine.

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