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Everyone in Seattle hates AI

jonready.com

411–420 of 1001 posts

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#411
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when everything had a have the word ‘digital’ in it. And I’m old enough to remember when ‘multimedia’ was a buzzword that was crammed into anywhere it would fit.

You know what, this clarifies something for me. PC, Web and Smartphone hype was based on "we can now do [thing] never done before". This time out it feels more like "we can do existing [thing], but reduce the cost of doing it by not employing people" It all feels much more like a wealth grab for the corporations than a promise of improving a standard of living for end customers. Much closer to a Cloud or Server (repl…

>> This time out it feels more like "we can do existing [thing], but reduce the cost of doing it by not employing people"

I was doing RPA (robotic process automation) 8 years ago. Nobody wanted it in their departments. Whenever we would do presentations, we were told to never, ever, ever talk about this technology replacing people - it only removes the mundane work so teams can focus more on the bigger scope stuff. In the end, we did dozens and dozens of presentations and only two teams asked us to do some automation work for them.

The other leaders had no desire to use this technology because they were not only fearful of it replacing people on their teams, they were fearful it would impact their budgets negatively so they just quietly turned us down.

Unfortunately, you're right because as soon as this stuff gets automated and you find out 1/3rd of your team is doing those mundane tasks, you learn very quickly you can indeed remove those people since there won't be enough "big" initiatives to keep everybody busy enough.

The caveat was even on some of the biggest automations we did, you still needed a subset of people on the team you were working with to make sure the automations were running correctly and not breaking down. And when they did crash, since a lot of these were moving time sensitive data, it was like someone just stole the crown jewels and suddenly you need two war rooms and now you're ordering in for lunch.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#412
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friends at Google are some of the most negative about the potential of AI to improve software development. I was always surprised by this and assumed internally at Google would be one of the first places to adopt these.

Engineers at Google are much less likely to be doing green-field generation of large amounts of code . It's much more incremental, carefully measured changes to mature, complex software stacks, and done within the Google ecosystem, which is heavily divergent from the OSS-focused world of startups, where most training data comes from

Yeah but Google won’t expect you to use AI tools developed outside Google and trained on primarily OSS code. It would expect you to use the Google internal AI tools trained on google3, no?

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#413

> AI-powered map > none of it had anything to do with what I built. She talked about Copilot 365. And Microsoft AI. And every miserable AI tool she's forced to use at work. My product barely featured. Her reaction wasn't about me at all. It was about her entire environment. She was given two context clues. AI. And maps. Maps work, which means all the information in an "AI-powered map" descriptor rests on the adjectiv…

The product website isn't convincing either. It's only in private beta, and the first example shows 'A scenic walking tour of Venice' as the desired trip. I'll readily believe LLMs will gladly give you some sort of itinerary for walking in Venice, including all highlights people write and post about a lot on social media to show how great their life is. But if you asked anyone knowledgable about travel in that region…

If it’s your first time going to Italy you absolutely should visit Venice. The crowds are unpleasant, but so what? Are you going to avoid Rome too? Only go to little provincial villages?

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#414
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "Engineers don't try" is a frustrating statement. We've all tried generative AI, and there's not that much to it — you put text in, you get text back out. Some models are better at some tasks, some tools are better at finding the right text and connecting it to the right actions, some tools provide a better wrapper around the text-generation process. Certain jobs are very easy for AI to do, others are impossibl…

Maybe not what the OP or article is talking about, but it's super frustrating recently dealing with non/less technical mgrs, PMs, etc who now think they have this Uno card to bypass technical discussion just because they vibe coded some UI demo. Like no shit, that wasn't the hard part. But since they don't see the real/less visible past like data/auth/security, etc they act like engineers "aren't trying", less innova…

It reminds me of how we moved from "mockups" to "wireframes" -- in other words, deliberately making the appearance not look like a real, finished UI, because that could give the impression that the project was nearly done

But now, to your point: they can vibe-code their own "mockups" and that brings us back to that problem

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why then there is an AI-powered dishwasher, but no AI car?

https://www.tesla.com/fsd ? I also don't understand the LLM ⊄ AI people. Nobody was whining about pathfinding in video games being called AI lol. And I have to say LLMs are a lot smarter than A*.

Cannot find any mention of AI there.

Also it's funny how they add (supervised) everywhere. It looks like "Full self driving (not really)"

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#416
post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punishment eh? Serves them right for being skeptical. I've been around long enough that I have seen four hype cycles around AI like coding environments. If you think this is new you should have been there in the 80's (Mimer, anybody?), when the 'fourth generation' languages were going to solve all of our coding problems. Or in the 60's (which I did not personally witness on account of being a toddler), when COBOL, th…

I'm not a big llm booster, but I will say that they're really good for proof of concepts, for turning detailed pseudocode into code, sometimes for getting debugging ideas. I'm a decade younger than you, but I've programmed in 4GLs (yuch), lived through a few attempts at visual programming (ugh), and ... LLM assistance is different. It's not magic and it does really poorly at the things I'm truly expert at, but it doe…

> but it does quite well with boring stuff that's still a substantial amount of programming.

I'm happy that it works out for you, and probably this is a reflection of the kind of work that I do, I wouldn't know how to begin to solve a problem like designing a braille wheel or a windmill using AI tools even though there is plenty of coding along the way. Maybe I could use it to make me faster at using OpenSCAD but I am never limited by my typing speed, much more so by thinking about what it is that I actually want to make.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#418

Ex-Google here; there are many people both current and past-Google that feel the same way as the composite coworker in the linked post. I haven't escaped this mindset myself. I'm convinced there are a small number of places where LLMs make truly effective tools (see: generation of "must be plausible, need not be accurate" data, e.g. concept art or crowd animations in movies), a large number of places where LLMs make…

My experience is the productivity gains are negative to neutral. Someone else basically wrote that the total "work" was simply being moved from one bucket to another. (I can't find the original link.)

Example: you might spend less time on initial development, but more time on code review and rework. That has been my personal experience.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in Danish FWIW. In English, I’d pronounce it very similar to “wonderful”.

If OP dropped the g, it would be a MUCh better product name.

Solid advice. Seeing how many here would pronounce it differently, I totally agree hahah

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#420

As a Seattle SWE, I'd say most of my coworkers do hate all the time-wasting AI stuff being shoved down our throats. There are a few evangelical AI boosters I do work with, but I keep catching mistakes in their code that they didn't used to make. Large suites of elegant looking unit tests, but the unit tests include large amounts of code duplicating functionality of the test framework for no reason, and I've even seen…

As someone on a team with a less stringent code review culture, AI generated code creates more work when used indiscriminately. Good enough to get approved but full of non-obvious errors that cause expensive rework which only gets prioritized once the shortcomings become painfully obvious (usually) months after the original work was “completed” and once the original author has forgotten the details, or worse, left the team entirely. Not to say AI generated code is not occasionally valuable, just not for anything that is intended to be correct and maintainable indefinitely by other developers. The real challenge is people using AI generated code as a mechanism to avoid fully understanding the problem that needs to be solved.
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