India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app • Hacker News Board

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#411

Post by ajyotirmay » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 8:14 AM UTC

sbmthakur wrote: post #308

sharadov wrote: post #129

Indian government is big on pronouncements. It will be a garbage app that most likely will not work, considering the historical incompetence of the Indian government's expertise in all things tech. I am pretty certain Apple and Samsung will pay off someone in the government.

I don't think the government is going to treat it like a local district website. IRCTC, UPI, e-Filing portal seem to be working fine for the most part, so pretty sure they can make this work eventually.

IRCTC is a private company. UPI isn't government either. Which e-filling portal is working nicely for you? My ITR was stuck for more than a year because some lame ass dev couldn't show proper error message other than suggesting that something needed to be done by my bank (which wasn't the case and only a year later did I decide to dig into th3 dev tools).

To praise Indian government is the most unlikely thing one should be doing for their mediocrity at developing things.

Same is the case with Aadhar, Digiyatra, etc. My government is hella incompetent at safeguarding data and privacy (unless it's their own data). And this app is 100% going to be a huge security hole on every device.

For me, ADB to the resuce.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#412

Post by GoblinSlayer » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 8:16 AM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #278

amarant wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? In Sweden we have digital ID and it's great! Super practical and I struggle to think of how it would be used to spy on citizens, given that it has the same legal protections as banks have regarding your account transactions etc. Like sure you could in theory see every document I've ever signed if you have a warrant for BankID servers, but you could probably glean most of that if you had a warrant for the bank…

> Like sure you could in theory see every document I've ever signed if you have a warrant for BankID servers, but you could probably glean most of that if you had a warrant for the banks servers anyway, so it's not really a new capability. It's a single point of failure. Digital ID servers on creation because as valuable to compromise as value_of_bank_hack*bank_count plus whatever other services are rolled in. Furthe…

There are schemes, where e.g. KYC would require centralized storage of identifying information, which is equivalent or stronger than Digital ID. I'm not sure why Digital ID servers would store your health records.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#413

Post by captn3m0 » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 8:16 AM UTC

ssivark wrote: post #183

Animats wrote: post #79

What does this app actually do, in detail? Anyone know?

This seems to be the app: https://www.sancharsaathi.gov.in/ Looks like it's quire popular/established already, with over 10 million downloads. Basically a "portal" for basic digital safety/hygiene related services. Quoting Perplexity regarding what facilities the app offers: 1. Chakshu: Report suspicious calls, SMS, or WhatsApp for scams like impersonation, fake investments, or KYC frauds. 2. Block Lost/Stolen Phones…

Every single Indian SIM holder got dozens of SMS from the regulator to push the app installations. When your marketing campaign is “Notify every Indian SIM holder”, 10M should be expected. Look at the reviews.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#414

Post by ajyotirmay » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 8:17 AM UTC

SanjayMehta wrote: post #237

sharadov wrote: post #129

Indian government is big on pronouncements. It will be a garbage app that most likely will not work, considering the historical incompetence of the Indian government's expertise in all things tech. I am pretty certain Apple and Samsung will pay off someone in the government.

I have this app installed on my phone, and it helped eliminate "digital arrest" scam calls from 5-6 calls per day to maybe one in 2 months. It makes filing an online complaint against the incoming call almost frictionless. Having said that, I don't believe it should be shoved down our throats. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_arrest

All that couldn be as simple as educating people that there is no such thing as "digital arrest".

You are just telling the whole world about the average IQ of an Indian and how they believe in foolish things like "digital arrest".

And an app doesn't solve that. Digital literacy is a need for today, but the entire country is getting the latest smartphone, with dirt cheap data and zero knowledge of how to operate and own that technology.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#415

Post by schneehertz » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 8:20 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #368

throwaway2037 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone explain the history of "self ID" rules and laws in the UK? It seems like you do not have to prove your ID to the police. It is the reverse. As an outsider, I don't understand it.

The fundamental proposition on which all of English culture flows from is that of innocence . For example, in court, you do not have to prove your innocence because you are presumed innocent. In the case of ID cards and the like, the state does not rule over the populace, it rules on behalf of the populace. I am innocent and they work for me . Hence, I do not have to prove to some random government agent who I am unl…

Oh, bro, you're practically living in 1689

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#416

Post by SanjayMehta » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 8:26 AM UTC

unmole wrote: post #392

SanjayMehta wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this app installed on my phone, and it helped eliminate "digital arrest" scam calls from 5-6 calls per day to maybe one in 2 months. It makes filing an online complaint against the incoming call almost frictionless. Having said that, I don't believe it should be shoved down our throats. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_arrest

> I have this app installed on my phone, and it helped eliminate "digital arrest" scam calls from 5-6 calls per day to maybe one in 2 months. Yeah, no. Correlation is not causation. Having the app installed doesn't eliminate calls. The app doesn't have the ability to block calls. Operators like Airtel stepped up and started flagging spam/scam and now warn their users when they recieve a call from flagged numbers.

How do you think operators built a database of spammers?

I've been reporting spammers since 2005, since DND rules came into place.

Only in the last year have I seen the spam slow down. Earlier operators would dismiss the complaint saying to it was a "transactional communication," now it's logged with TRAI and the operator and they have less room to manipulate the complaint.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#417

Post by SanjayMehta » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 8:27 AM UTC

ajyotirmay wrote: post #414

SanjayMehta wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this app installed on my phone, and it helped eliminate "digital arrest" scam calls from 5-6 calls per day to maybe one in 2 months. It makes filing an online complaint against the incoming call almost frictionless. Having said that, I don't believe it should be shoved down our throats. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_arrest

All that couldn be as simple as educating people that there is no such thing as "digital arrest". You are just telling the whole world about the average IQ of an Indian and how they believe in foolish things like "digital arrest". And an app doesn't solve that. Digital literacy is a need for today, but the entire country is getting the latest smartphone, with dirt cheap data and zero knowledge of how to operate and o…

And your point is what exactly?

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#418

Post by graemep » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 8:27 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #368

throwaway2037 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone explain the history of "self ID" rules and laws in the UK? It seems like you do not have to prove your ID to the police. It is the reverse. As an outsider, I don't understand it.

The fundamental proposition on which all of English culture flows from is that of innocence . For example, in court, you do not have to prove your innocence because you are presumed innocent. In the case of ID cards and the like, the state does not rule over the populace, it rules on behalf of the populace. I am innocent and they work for me . Hence, I do not have to prove to some random government agent who I am unl…

Successive governments have been determined to change this.

A good current example is the Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill which very much is based on the idea that the state, rather than parents, is primarily responsible for children. The Online Safety Act reflects much the same thinking.

I think there has been a cultural change. Both from the state, and from people who expect to be told what to do to a greater extent than the past.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#419

Post by ahoka » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 8:29 AM UTC

amarant wrote: post #353

hexbin010 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle to see how it's a good thing for Sweden. I disagree convenience is a good thing. We can all play "I struggle to see" and throw out weak arguments but it does not advance the topic

You still haven't presented even a weak argument for how it infringes on privacy. You just said "privacy" and pretended that's an argument

There’s not a lot of privacy ins Sweden anyway. Way too much private stuff is public and continuously scraped by private companies.

For those who don’t know: by just looking up a name, you can find a persons birthday, address, who also lives there. Oh and the person’s salary is public too.

Ridiculous.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#420

Post by Aachen » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 8:30 AM UTC

zarzavat wrote: post #300

ibejoeb wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that were the case, by what mechanism are they commandeering it? That's essentially what I was thinking about in this India case. Undoubtedly most people will comply, but there will be a few who don't, so I'm curious what the plan is to bring them in line.

UK isn't commandeering anything. The UK government hasn't decided yet how digital ID will work, currently it's just a talking point. Probably it will be an app that you install, like the NHS app. Nobody is proposing that it be installed by default. Apple separately announced that a Digital ID feature will be built into iOS[0] which the UK may use or not use. > few who don't, so I'm curious what the plan is to bring t…

> Probably it will be an app that you install, like the NHS app. Nobody is proposing that it be installed by default.

Whether it comes pre-installed or not is a distinction without difference if you need it for daily life

Edit: In fact, it would be better if it came pre-installed (and be removable) because then you don't need to agree to Google's terms of service to get the APK file. You would get it straight from your OS vendor which is presumably a trusted party if you intend on using that device. (Governments are usually not so forward-thinking that they let you get the APK file from the govt website directly without needing to go through commercial entities for something as essential as a national healthcare app. That would be an even better solution...)