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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#411

Post by saagarjha »

LTL_FTC wrote: post #274
throwaway240403 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent's complaint about non-native docker is not solved by colima. It's not bloat from the desktop app it's the fact that you have to run a VM to run any sort of container runtime on a mac.

This is no longer the case with macOS 26. Edit: each container still gets its own vm but the container runtime is now native. https://github.com/apple/container

"The container runtime is now native" is a meaningless phrase. The containers are VMs and they will always be VMs.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#412

Post by saagarjha »

fidotron wrote: post #203

This isn't just a question of direct power management features or use of custom silicon, but there has been curious noise for years out of Apple over a major cause: memory management. In modern systems memory becomes a major source of power consumption, so reducing how much if it you need to keep active results in big gains, on top of all the other benefits of doing this. This is partly used as the reasoning to expla…

I don't think Apple does anything particularly special with memory management as it relates to power.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#413

Post by charcircuit »

ang_cire wrote: post #407
charcircuit wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don’t think there’s much framework can do The MacBook is an existence proof that there is something they can do.

I'm pretty sure your income is closer to Framework's revenue, than Frameworks's revenue is to Apple's.

Android's revenue is closer to my income than Apple's. I guess Google should just give up competing with the iPhone and give up on Android.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#414

Post by UK-Al05 »

Throwaway123129 wrote: post #366
maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

This is not a Linux issue (Though the hibernate issues are!). It's a PC issue. Microsoft went on a crusade making hardware vendors implement S0 next to S3 but most hardware vendors now _only_ implement S0. So that the laptop can keep phoning home and download updates etc whilst closed. Which means it's impossible to turn off the CPU during suspend. it's always on. PC as a laptop platform is a complete joke.

Ok but windows has better battery life.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#415

Post by OJFord »

babypuncher wrote: post #185
jadenPete wrote: post #175

I really, really want an ARM laptop with great Linux support. It's very difficult to justify buying an non-M series laptop today, when the M series laptops outperform x86 laptops in battery life by such a wide margin. I'm sure some of that is because Apple controls their entire hardware and software stack and can optimize macOS for battery life, but it's hard not to believe that the processor architecture (i.e. x86)…

I think it's still up in the air whether a decent non-Apple laptop/desktop class ARM chip will come to market before Intel and/or AMD narrow the efficiency gap enough that the hassle won't be worth it.

Who would make it? Do the likes of Broadcom have the vision & ambition to push into that class? I could see it happening if AMD decided Arm was the way to progress, but that would be bold too. (AMD does already have an architecture licence though I believe.)

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#416

Post by cyberax »

Daneel_ wrote: post #320
fizwidget wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Less than a minute” is going to feel horribly slow to people that are used to instant-resume and not having to think about shutdown vs. sleep. You might be okay with it, but I suspect most consumers today won’t be.

I've never used sleep on my laptop. I always have the lid set to 'do nothing' when closed (i.e., stay on and keep running). In the past I gave up on using a macbook for many reasons, but a key one was that I couldn't keep the machine on when closing the lid. I can't fathom having to reconnect terminal sessions or other similar connections every time I want to move from one meeting room to another. Carrying my laptop…

There is a command line tool for this: "caffeinate". You can add a script that runs it while there are SSH sessions open.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#417

Post by nottorp »

eigenspace wrote: post #178
whatarethembits wrote: post #43

Battery life is the only thing stopping me from getting out of the Apple ecosystem. As soon as a viable Linux laptop with "enough" battery life becomes available, I'll make the switch. At that point there's nothing on Apple side that couldn't be done better in Linux (with a bit of work, but that's okay). I travel a lot, and often on standby for work during that time. I need to be confident that when I pull the laptop…

Instead of a hot-swappable battery, why not just carry a large battery-bank that can charge your laptop over USB-C? That way you don't even need to reboot. Browsing around on Amazon, I see there's actually quite a few battery banks that with over 60W of output, and ~100Wh of capacity for under 100€

> why not just carry a large battery-bank

And a mouse, because non apple laptops are hard to use with just the trackpad.

And the huge power adapter for the "gaming" laptop.

... sadly, it means I'll have to stick to Apple hardware for longer. As much as I think Cook is an idiot who's trying to dumb their products down to the point they're not even usable for power users, let alone developers.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#418

Post by tannhaeuser »

Linux desktop is a lost cause for me, simple as that with the fiasco that is Ubuntu post 2022, wayland, and too many other choices that make for a horrible user experience. Those probs with power management mentioned here are ones that systemd was supposed to solve weren't they? Only that systemd went into becoming an inner OS and can't be assed about such things. The prob as far as I'm concerned is not that Linux simply sucks, but that it used to be good (I even recommended it over Mac OS years ago here) and has regressed into a state that isn't anymore usable for me. Even using the terminal on Linux has become a pain in the ass. The priority here seems to be pack everything into containers to make further maintenance obsolete or sth? I guess if there's no one in the user seat and devs and managers have free reign over whatever grand refactoring they want to tackle that's what's happening. Back on Mac OS which has actually apps worth using, or at all.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#419

Post by mschuster91 »

MisterTea wrote: post #275

Funny side story is years ago when AMD was developing the Opteron A series I commented somewhere that AMD is making a terrible blunder and is going after the wrong market. They needed to start the other way around, and build a kick ass Arm + GPU SoC that was more akin to a PC in terms of performance and not a throw away raspberry pi SoC. Bigger caches, wider memory bus, PCIe e.g. for NVMe, powerful GPU. Essentially s…

For that, you'd actually need a high performance ARM core on one side (and frankly, it's just Apple at that point, they needed well over a decade to get there), and you need some way to make legacy x86/x86_64 applications to run smoothly to get over the chicken-egg effect, and you need some way for all the legacy hardware devices that people plug in into their computers.

Apple could do it not just because of their experience from the iOS device family and the IP they acquired for it, but because they didn't need to take care that much about the issues in the Windows ecosystem. Apple has long since discouraged third party hardware that can't be driven with libusb from userspace as kexts have been deprecated, Apple has been pretty ruthless in forcing developers to keep their software compileable, and their ARM Architecture License allowed them to do tweaks and extensions to make performant emulation of x86 code possible.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#420

Post by nottorp »

Tade0 wrote: post #370
someguyiguess wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5-6 hours? In 2025? That's... really bad. My 5 year old Macbook Pro lowest-spec M1 gets at least 10-12 hours of work on a charge and lasts for weeks in sleep mode.

To me it appears that the screen is a huge power hog - at least in the 16. My idle power consumption at 0% display brightness is around 7.5W, but I've seen people get to as low as 6.5W. Not great, not terrible. With the display at 50% it jumps to the teens(13-17W). Meanwhile the display in the MBP peaks at 6.2W: https://andytran93.com/2021/12/05/power-consumption-implicat... I guess herein lies their secret sauce - w…

I've seen the whole MBP (not just the display) using just 4.5 W while browsing HN with little else running.
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