I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#171

Post by fizwidget » Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 10:10 PM UTC

worble wrote: post #155

maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

While I don't deny that suspend is an issue on Linux I've just never seen this as a major problem? I simply turn off my laptop and turn it on when I need it - boot times are less than a minute so it really isn't a issue for me, just flick the power switch, wait for a bit then I'm good to go.

“Less than a minute” is going to feel horribly slow to people that are used to instant-resume and not having to think about shutdown vs. sleep.

You might be okay with it, but I suspect most consumers today won’t be.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#172

Post by victor9000 » Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 10:11 PM UTC

The best thing about owning a framework is that you can easily recover from silly events like spilling an entire latte on your laptop. I've done this twice so far and both times it cost me $99 to swap out the keyboard and get back to a stock look and feel.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#173

Post by buffington » Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 10:13 PM UTC

dmm wrote: post #83

Aurornis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Mac Desktop is vastly inferior to the Linux world I have to use Mac, Linux, and Windows desktops in my work. They all have their pros and cons, but I can’t say I’d ever argue that the Mac desktop experience is vastly inferior to the Linux desktop experience. Edit: Getting a lot of downvotes but most of the comments are about someone’s highly customized Linux desktop compared to completely vanilla Mac desktop. I…

On a Mac, you can switch between apps with Command-Tab or windows of the same app with Command-` but there's no way to cycle between all windows or bounce between to two most recently used windows. Maybe this used to make sense when apps were single purpose but I do basically everything in a web browser or a terminal so not being able to bounce between the previously selected window(of whatever kind), as I can with A…

Most macOS keyboard commands that let you cycle between things (like windows or applications) can be "reversed" by adding the SHIFT key.

So CMD+TAB+SHIFT cycles in the opposite order of from CMD+TAB, etc.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#174

Post by throwaway240403 » Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 10:15 PM UTC

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #76

cardanome wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It’s more subjective of a thing than many would like to admit. As someone who’s been working as a dev for a decade and writing code outside of work for twice that, one of the things keeping me away from Linux is that there simply isn’t a true Mac analogue DE.

It's funny how polarizing this is. Seemingly based on whatever system you grew up on, or are most accustomed to.

I find Mac's window management to be something of a joke, and can't imagine why anyone would want to replicate it. I do see the value of the global menu but everything else feels wholly unintuitive to me. I can't stand that cmd+tab takes you to the last app, not the last window, and raises all that apps other windows as well. I literally never want that.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#175

Post by jadenPete » Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 10:17 PM UTC

I really, really want an ARM laptop with great Linux support. It's very difficult to justify buying an non-M series laptop today, when the M series laptops outperform x86 laptops in battery life by such a wide margin. I'm sure some of that is because Apple controls their entire hardware and software stack and can optimize macOS for battery life, but it's hard not to believe that the processor architecture (i.e. x86) is mostly to blame for the terrible battery life of most laptops.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#176

Post by red369 » Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 10:18 PM UTC

Zak wrote: post #94

999900000999 wrote: post #87

I want to love framework, and I really do want to get behind their mission, but a few things stand out. First and this is the elephant in the room, it's probably better for the environment to buy a refurbished think pad. The most environmentally friendly product is one that gets reused instead of going to a landfill. The 13-in framework only offers one SSD slot, The expansion Bay offers a nice storage option but thes…

> if you're popping in and out expansion cards all the time eventually the ports are going to fail If you're plugging and unplugging USB-C cables all the time, eventually the ports are going to fail, but we generally consider plugging things into USB-C acceptable. The Framework expansion modules are just USB-C ports, but they're not subject to much twisting or bending when using the modules so they should last longer…

Even if the internal USB-C ports which the expansion cards plug into fail, which to me also seems like a long time away, the mainboard is designed to be replaceable so I think you'd be in a better position than with another laptop with a failed power plug.

There are also clips that hold the expansion cards in place. My HDMI one started coming out when I unplug the cable even from really early on, even without pressing the button which should be required to remove the card. That is another way they could fail - in getting loose enough that they weren't securely held in place to be useable. The internal USB-C port would still apply some force in holding them in place though. In my case, this is not related to the socket, but to the card. I'll need to open it up and take a closer look, but hopefully they're designed so the cards fail long before whatever is in the chassis which holds them in. Plastic on the cards vs metal on the chassis would seem robust to me. Otherwise, if the mechanism fails on the chassis side, that would be a much bigger replacement.

Disclosure: I was a big supporter of Framework and bought an early 13 inch (11th gen Intel). I would no longer recommend them due to the mounting list of problems I've had, and despite their responses always being friendly and prompt, they are unable to send any replacement parts, because I've moved to a non-supported country and there is no way they can send anything to the maritime capital of the world. I try to be neutral in my comments, but sarcasm creeps into my disclosures.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#177

Post by carlosjobim » Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 10:19 PM UTC

atahanacar wrote: post #163

carlosjobim wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do basically everything in a web browser Then you are deliberately handicapping yourself, this isn't something you can blame on the OS. It's like complaining that a car has bad fuel economy because you always stay in first gear. As for the displays, you are comparing apples to oranges. You can get a high DPI monitor which is smaller than 32 inches for cheap. Which is plenty of screen for the distances where DPI d…

>Then you are deliberately handicapping yourself, this isn't something you can blame on the OS. The classic "You're holding it wrong" defense. Especially when the alternatives don't have this problem.

If you think that the purpose of OS X or Apple devices is to live in the web browser or live in the terminal, then you've been very misinformed. It's on the level of buying a motorcycle and expecting it to have a roof. And then complaining about the manufacturer. Apple stuff has worked like this for decades.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#178

Post by eigenspace » Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 10:19 PM UTC

whatarethembits wrote: post #43

Battery life is the only thing stopping me from getting out of the Apple ecosystem. As soon as a viable Linux laptop with "enough" battery life becomes available, I'll make the switch. At that point there's nothing on Apple side that couldn't be done better in Linux (with a bit of work, but that's okay). I travel a lot, and often on standby for work during that time. I need to be confident that when I pull the laptop…

Instead of a hot-swappable battery, why not just carry a large battery-bank that can charge your laptop over USB-C? That way you don't even need to reboot.

Browsing around on Amazon, I see there's actually quite a few battery banks that with over 60W of output, and ~100Wh of capacity for under 100€

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#179

Post by notRobot » Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 10:19 PM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #168

seabrookmx wrote: post #122

The article is pretty light on details. Whether the Framework is worth it to you really depends on your use case. I never leave a laptop in my bag for three weeks, and if I do I have the foresight to actually shut it down rather than sleep it. So the battery drain while sleeping is less of a problem for me. My Framework 13 has the Ryzen 5 AI 340 Chip, and I get 5-6 hours of work on a charge. The Macbooks definitely b…

My Framework is a personal device, not for work. I might use it once a day or less for a couple hours or less. It was 100% charged this past Saturday night when I picked it up off the charger. I used it for an hour or two looking for doing some planning for Halloween. Nothing serious, just browsing with Firefox. I shut the lid and placed it on the coffee table. I picked it up Sunday night to find the battery had depl…

You can change the action for "shutting lid" in windows settings. Mapping it to hibernate can help. You might have to enable hibernation first if you haven't already.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#180

Post by bityard » Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 10:23 PM UTC

trueismywork wrote: post #116

didacusc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that the macOS desktop is vastly inferior to Linux desktops is absolutely nuts. I've tried to get my relatives on Linux desktops so many times, just for it to go completely wrong a couple of weeks after and having to reinstall Windows. It's just not made for average (or below-average) users, so I don't see how it can be VASTLY inferior to something as easy and polished as macOS.

I just got a work Mac and I have spent around 20 years now on linux before it. I was making a list compared to KDE (not pros/cons just differences) It is still a work in progress since its only a couple of days since im using it. 1. No delete button. I know you can do Fn delete but It is more problematic. And I do use delete often. 2. System keeps important system stuff in Library directory in home. Do not do remove…

25. Left-clicking in a window to raise it _sometimes_ performs actions in the app (e.g. clicking a button or scrolling the window) and _sometimes_ only raises the window. It seems to depend on the app.

26. No ability to use focus-follows-mouse.

27. Home/End keys send you to the top/bottom of the whole document instead of the start/end of a line. The latter is much more useful to me and I use it all the time. You can change this behavior with a terminal command followed by rebooting, but some programs still do whatever they want.

28. Automatic text replacements change the text you entered into the text that Apple thinks you mean. (Can also be disabled.)

29. Holding down an alphanumeric key brings up an accept/symbol selector, as on iPhone. This isn't compatible with many terminal applications like vim.

30. The dock has a tendency to move automatically to another display when there is a maximized window on that display. (I know how to move the dock by going bottom of the display and moving the mouse down, this isn't that.)

31. The camera notch can hide icons and you have no way to get to them without either connecting and external display or a workaround like https://github.com/dwarvesf/hidden.