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Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

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Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#411

Post by whimsicalism »

devman0 wrote: post #99

A lot of really terrible takes in this comment section. Telegram didn't have encrypted groups by default, and telegram possessed a lot of content on their servers that they had been made aware was illegal and didn't cooperate. Nothing more, nothing less. The comparisons to other providers is off base because either other providers are cooperating more when they possess actionable, unencrypted information and taking s…

ultimately this fight against unmonitored messaging is going to be a lost one for the developed world. people who want encrypted group chats will get them

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#412

Post by scotty79 »

Almondsetat wrote: post #248
scotty79 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If law enforcement asked them nicely for access I bet they wouldn't refuse. Why take responsibility for something if you can just offload it to law enforcement? The issue is law enforcement doesn't want that kind of access. Because they have no manpower to go after criminals. This would increase their caseload hundredfold within a month. So they prefer to punish the entity that created this honeypot. So it goes away…

>I bet they wouldn't refuse Apparently, they have. Sorry for your bet.

Maybe they didn't ask nicely. Or they asked for something else. There's literally zero drawback for service provider to provide secret access to the raw data that they hold to law enforcement. You'd be criminally dumb if you didn't do it. Literally criminally.

I bet that if they really asked, they pretty much asked Telegram to build them one click creator that would print them court ready documents about criminals on their platform so that law enforcement can just click a button and yell "we got one!" to the judge.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#413

Post by lukan »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #180
jeroenhd wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So even Telegram employees can't decrypt the chats I very much doubt that. If Durov wanted to, they could decrypt all of those messages. That fancy encryption system is worthless when someone can hijack the session of any of the users in a chosen group. This is a risk in many crypto messengers, but those usually come with optional key verification whereas Telegram doesn't have that outside of encrypted one-on-one c…

Because of the nature of the encryption, it allows more convenience compared to WhatsApp and Signal. For example, on Telegram you can (and we do) have a million people in a group without exposing their phone numbers. This has proven itself to be extremely useful to protestors. Signal failed massively, you couldn't add too many people and you always had the risk of exposing the phone numbers. Along with that, you can…

"The chats instantly appear after login. "

I agree, that is very convenient. Also for the secret police officer..

I use telegram as social media, but I really would not use it to organize protest somewhere. Then the whole safety depends on whether Durov made a deal with the secret police, or them infiltrating the servers to know everything about anyone involved. What they liked at what time, what pictures they shared, etc.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#414

Post by namdnay »

whimsicalism wrote: post #240
dns_snek wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of those was @rtnews which is definitely state-sponsored propaganda and remains inaccessible to this day. They cooperated to some degree, but I'll go out on a limb to say that the authorities wanted Telegram to be fully subservient to western government interests.

i should be allowed to watch whatever state propaganda i want, i'm a big boy 15 years ago in the US this would have been uncontroversial

15 years ago watching too much Taliban propaganda would have put you in Guantanamo pretty fast

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#415

Post by Timber-6539 »

konart wrote: post #403
Timber-6539 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Literally all Telegram clients are open source.

What about the server? Telegram is not strictly e2e.

An "open source server"... are you trolling?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#416

Post by scotty79 »

naasking wrote: post #320
scotty79 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Napster had zero ethical responsibility for the mass piracy it enabled How could they have any moral responsibility for ethically neutral thing other people were doing?

Even if you think they had no moral responsibility, it's clear they had legal responsibility.

What's legal is very malleable with the use of money. Which copyright holders weren't shy about spending.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#417

Post by scotty79 »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #193
scotty79 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Napster had zero ethical responsibility for the mass piracy it enabled How could they have any moral responsibility for ethically neutral thing other people were doing?

Not much has changed, I see.

Nothing. In other news, murder still immoral as always.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#418

Post by medo-bear »

squidbeak wrote: post #363
medo-bear wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a simpler explanation, those providers are controlled by Western governments (read US)

There's a simpler explanation. Those providers make an earnest attempt to obey western law.

It's simpler, the US wants to control the narrative everywhere and in everything, just like in the 90s and 00s. Things like Telegram and Tiktok and to some extent RT, stand in the way of that.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#419

Post by Svoka »

lxgr wrote: post #406
Svoka wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a blatant lie. In russia telegram is wdidely used to prosecute people and crack down on descent. KGB (today know as FSB) seem to have free access to anything not encrypted on the platform.

I have no reason to doubt that, and evidence supports that statement (i.e. the fact that it got unblocked in Russia, after previously having been blocked). They could in any case very well be selectively applying that policy. But if they were fully cooperating with French authorities, why would there be a warrant?

Why would KGB would share their toys with western powers? They have their ring of dictatorships to use it as one of most potent propaganda and tracking tools.
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