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Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

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Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#411

Post by freilanzer »

whythre wrote: post #358
dmazzoni wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't use the term "garbage prose", but I do agree that many books from the literary canon aren't the greatest choice to assign to kids. Steinbeck and Faulkner come to mind. I understand that they're important, influential, and well-written. But I just didn't relate to them. There was almost nothing about the main characters' challenges or desires that I could understand. My son was assigned "The Outsiders" by S…

“ My son was assigned "The Outsiders" by S.E. Hinton - he didn't mind reading it, but he said he just didn't really relate to any of the characters. Even though it's set just 50 years ago, the culture it describes bares basically no resemblance to modern-day life for a teenager.” Maybe that’s ok? I read the Outsiders when I was young (25 years ago or so) and although I thought it was a bit weird, it wasn’t bad. My li…

> I am all for giving the kids a chance to see a different world and get a sense of how things can change.

Not if you're discouraging children from reading as a hobby by assigning the driest works there are. With the exception of Faust, all 'homework books' were horribly dry and frankly boring. For example, The Sorrows of Young Werther - utterly irrelevant. I would understand any child or teenager who gave up on reading if they were forced to read books like these - and even worse, spend endless hours discussing and being tested on them.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#412

Post by throwaway2037 »

moregrist wrote: post #341
throwaway2037 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understand why we are forced to read so much of the literary canon. Most of it is so hard to read, and so unenjoyable. Many of them could be re-written in a more enjoyable way for young children, through teenagers. I am exactly like you: I hardly ever read for pleasure when I was younger unless there was a blatant bride ("award") awaiting me. Most of the time, I was underwater reading some garbage prose from…

As an alternative perspective, I am glad that my middle and high school curriculum included several works of Shakespeare, especially Macbeth and Hamlet, and several 19th century classics. They really do require time, they’re hard to make time for, and while reading them wasn’t exactly fun, I’m glad that I did it. Many of the themes are timeless, the prose is elegant if difficult, and there are cultural references to…

My point is the prose is a huge turn-off for most people and serves very little purpose in a modern society. As I mentioned in my post, I recommend to re-write these titles using a prose that will be more appealing to the age group. You can keep all of the same lessons to be learned in the re-write. I do not support this idea that learning needs to be painful or needlessly difficult. For most people, success in education is a positive feedback loop: If you do average or well, you look forward to more of it. And vice versa: If you below average, you try to avoid it and see it as a chore. I'm not saying to dumb down everything, but this "pain == good learning" seems from the 1980s and before -- outdated.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#413

Post by freilanzer »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #330
lupire wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which books of the canon did you read that you found to be garbage prose?

I would say I loathed hemmingway in school and really didn't grasp it at all until I was an adult. I love Hemingway

This is why instilling interest in reading is important, instead of killing it with the usual dry books.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#414

Post by throwaway2037 »

lupire wrote: post #312
throwaway2037 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understand why we are forced to read so much of the literary canon. Most of it is so hard to read, and so unenjoyable. Many of them could be re-written in a more enjoyable way for young children, through teenagers. I am exactly like you: I hardly ever read for pleasure when I was younger unless there was a blatant bride ("award") awaiting me. Most of the time, I was underwater reading some garbage prose from…

Which books of the canon did you read that you found to be garbage prose?

Shakespeare and Chaucer were fucking awful. They did nothing but make me hate reading and English class. It took me years to enjoy reading after the "classics". Many of my classmates were similar.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#415

Post by throwaway2037 »

sovnwnt wrote: post #326
lupire wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which books of the canon did you read that you found to be garbage prose?

I wouldn't say it's "garbage prose" but I read A Tale of Two Cities in school and found it impossible to form a mental image from the text in some parts. I'm still struggling to understand what "Tellson’s Bank had a run upon it in the mail." means.

I agree: A lot of Dickens is nearly impossible to understand as a child. The re-writes are terrific and solid storytelling!

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#416

Post by freilanzer »

Cayde-6 wrote: post #320
lupire wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone always complains about the "blue curtains". Did everyone but be ready the same book, or are you just repeating a meme? (for what purpose?) But I do analyze literature and study mathematical formulas in my free time, so maybe I'm built different. It's hard to say what school is doing in wrong when students aren't interested in study. Maybe the answer is to let the mom studious students leave school.

I can confirm, we ”analyzed” the color of the curtains in some novel I now forget. I believe they were, in fact, blue. The teacher was adamant details like that were always meaningful and certainly not just to paint a scene. It was far from the only instance of such “analysis”. What we actually learned from those lessons was that English/literature class was a waste of time and how to craft complete bullshit that sou…

> What we actually learned from those lessons was that English/literature class was a waste of time and how to craft complete bullshit that sounds deep, which I guess is a useful skill.

Same in german. Die Leiden des jungen Werther - dry, boring, irrelevant.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#417

Post by freilanzer »

lupire wrote: post #314
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several high school teachers I know don't assign long reading sessions because their students are dealing with some kind of unstable home life (or are homeless) and don't have an appropriate setting for it outside of class. That is, they avoid it because it injects a class bias into their grades. Given that, making space within the school day for such things seems like a good idea.

That's quite the cartwheel in front of the horse! I suggest removing the competitive grading system, and adding more hours to the school day, not removing the educational opportunity.

A teacher can't exactly do that now, can they.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#418

Post by latexr »

gregjor wrote: post #347

My oldest daughter could read at age four. By second grade, in a Texas public school, she liked to read Nancy Drew mysteries on her own. One day she came home from school crying and told us she didn't want to go back -- she said she had got in trouble for reading her book. Her mom and I went to talk to the teacher. Our daughter had got "caught" reading a Nancy Drew book at her desk while the other kids -- many of who…

> The teacher took the book away from our daughter and shamed her in front of the other kids. The teacher told us that "policy" prohibited students reading "non-assigned" books at school.

That’s a bad policy, but a worse teacher. They could’ve turned a blind eye.

> We didn't make our daughter go back, we withdrew her from school the next day and told the principal we had to move.

Why the lie? Was homeschooling prohibited where you lived, or something?

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#419

Post by fransje26 »

freilanzer wrote: post #393
knallfrosch wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>overanalyze it for “meaning”.<< I doubt overanalyzing actually happens. But pupils, including younger me, just don't understand how much more work and thought have gone into the legends they are reading. Yes, it's a 500 page tome. No, neither the blooming flower nor its color on page 356, line 38 are "random" and them symbolizing the meaning of life isn't "bullshit." Yes, a work like this happens only once a decade…

> No, neither the blooming flower nor its color on page 356, line 38 are "random" and them symbolizing the meaning of life isn't "bullshit." I firmly believe that most of this stuff in schools is massive over-analysis and that most authors, whose works are analysed in this way, have not planned all of this ridiculous nonsense we had to invent on the spot during a test. And that's exactly what we did - assign meaning…

I was always astonished at how much my literature teachers could seemingly hallucinate at-will on a piece of text and come with some hidden meaning for every word, comma, or rime.

I did not seem to be blessed with the accepted form of creativity for literature analysis, and, with every rebuttal, the pleasure of exploring those texts became less and less..

After many, many, many years, I'm slowly coming back to some of them to read on my own terms, and most books have been a pleasure to re-discover.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#420

Post by raincole »

theshrike79 wrote: post #376
raincole wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. As an Asian who has grown up reading manga I find anime generally very cliche. More than Netflix shows. Especially those adaptations from light novels. I think it is just about what's novel to you.

It's the variance in plots in Manga/Anime that's the thing. Some of my very favourite anime have been about: - Kid learning Go (the board game) from the ghost of an ancient grandmaster (Hikaru No Go) - Baking bread (Yakitate!! Japan) - Playing Tennis (Prince of Tennis) There is exactly zero chance that "Hollywood" would make any of these.

What does "Hollywood" mean in this context? Cause there are so many western movies and TV shows about sports and cooking. Of course you won't see Hollywood make the exact Prince of Tennis because, uh, it has been made.
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