Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun • Hacker News Board

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#311

Post by throwaway2037 » Wed, May 08, 2024, 1:27 AM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #157

akira2501 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kids don’t need to see digital advertisements to make a decision. They need access to a library stocked with recently published books that kids will enjoy. At 9 I had no idea how to go into a massive thing like a library and make a selection for myself. "Word of mouth" made a lot of choices for me when I was young.

Weird. At 9 I randomly picked whatever looked interesting. If I liked it, I proceeded to read every single other thing by that author. There was no "word of mouth" because I was the only kid in my class who read for pleasure.

"[W]ord of mouth" is probably mostly for girls. I never once had a boy tell me growing up that I needed to read a particular book.

    > I was the only kid in my class who read for pleasure.

Nice humblebrag. Also, I find this hard to believe.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#312

Post by lupire » Wed, May 08, 2024, 1:38 AM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #309

gwbas1c wrote: post #88

Take a closer look at how much homework children have, and how much assigned, mandatory reading children have. I went to a private "college prep" high school, and the amount of assigned, mandatory reading was insane. I spent so much time reading assigned novels that I just didn't have time to read for pleasure. (And why read for pleasure if I already spent 30+ minutes reading a boring / awful novel as part of my home…

I never understand why we are forced to read so much of the literary canon. Most of it is so hard to read, and so unenjoyable. Many of them could be re-written in a more enjoyable way for young children, through teenagers. I am exactly like you: I hardly ever read for pleasure when I was younger unless there was a blatant bride ("award") awaiting me. Most of the time, I was underwater reading some garbage prose from…

Which books of the canon did you read that you found to be garbage prose?

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#313

Post by lupire » Wed, May 08, 2024, 1:43 AM UTC

tpmoney wrote: post #307

alpinisme wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 30 minutes really the amount of novel reading we find unacceptable these days? I’m not asking quite as snarkily as that sounds. Do you think the problem would be alleviated if the hours of class time were shorter and (maybe) handed over to a study hall period or even to just being sent home? In college I know the theory is supposed to be that one hour of class time equals two hours of homework (though that rarely…

For me as a kid who loved reading and fell out of it by the time I finished school (and then re-found that love decades later), the biggest contributing factor wasn't 30 minutes of reading for school. It was forced reading of books that were uninteresting to me in the first place, and then having to engage with those books in a wholly artificial way. There's a lot of interesting things to be gleaned from books and ce…

Everyone always complains about the "blue curtains". Did everyone but be ready the same book, or are you just repeating a meme? (for what purpose?)

But I do analyze literature and study mathematical formulas in my free time, so maybe I'm built different.

It's hard to say what school is doing in wrong when students aren't interested in study. Maybe the answer is to let the mom studious students leave school.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#314

Post by lupire » Wed, May 08, 2024, 1:46 AM UTC

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #310

alpinisme wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 30 minutes really the amount of novel reading we find unacceptable these days? I’m not asking quite as snarkily as that sounds. Do you think the problem would be alleviated if the hours of class time were shorter and (maybe) handed over to a study hall period or even to just being sent home? In college I know the theory is supposed to be that one hour of class time equals two hours of homework (though that rarely…

Several high school teachers I know don't assign long reading sessions because their students are dealing with some kind of unstable home life (or are homeless) and don't have an appropriate setting for it outside of class. That is, they avoid it because it injects a class bias into their grades. Given that, making space within the school day for such things seems like a good idea.

That's quite the cartwheel in front of the horse!

I suggest removing the competitive grading system, and adding more hours to the school day, not removing the educational opportunity.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#315

Post by Filligree » Wed, May 08, 2024, 1:50 AM UTC

lmm wrote: post #281

kderbyma wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like committees....animes tend to have a visionary person who writes the core story and characters..... Hollywood is filled with board rooms of groups who are all incentivized in a way to 'get buy in' through concessions.... the first concession is the art...the vision.... then the talent.... then it's all down hill from there

> Sounds like committees....animes tend to have a visionary person who writes the core story and characters..... Funny, I've heard the exact opposite complaint a lot, that every anime in the last 20 years is made by committee and that's why the vast majority of anime are just slavish adaptations of already-successful manga, and even the few original anime projects that happen tend to be retreads of genre cliches.

Slavish recreations of already-successful manga at least have the benefit that there's a lot of manga. So as a viewer, you get variety regardless.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#316

Post by lupire » Wed, May 08, 2024, 1:51 AM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #211

aatd86 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I initially thought that it would be a good idea for me to major in Computer Science. For some reason I majored in Finance after a few years of electrical engineering courses. I don't think I'd be programming today if I had to be force fed programming assignments.

Computer Science is actually kinda of lousy for teaching the things most programmers can do. To the point where if I was hiring, I'd rather hire someone who's less experienced and self-taught, but with some sort of "interesting" background, where "interesting" is almost anything that teach's critical thinking about abstract concepts and how to articulate ideas. Could be anything from a Journalism degree to someone wh…

Yes, I also find that physicists don't make the best auto mechanics. Mechanics never need to derive the equations of astronomical motion when repairing an engine block.

Why do you believe that Computer Science is less "critical thinking about abstract concepts and how to articulate ideas" than Journalism?

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#317

Post by lupire » Wed, May 08, 2024, 1:55 AM UTC

bluerooibos wrote: post #99

gwbas1c wrote: post #88

Take a closer look at how much homework children have, and how much assigned, mandatory reading children have. I went to a private "college prep" high school, and the amount of assigned, mandatory reading was insane. I spent so much time reading assigned novels that I just didn't have time to read for pleasure. (And why read for pleasure if I already spent 30+ minutes reading a boring / awful novel as part of my home…

> rediscovered reading Any tips? I didn't, somehow. After leaving high school, then university, my brain went into full on "be productive all the time" mode. My brain somehow doesn't think reading is a good use of my time, so I've settled for audiobooks when falling asleep or on long drives. The last book I was able to devour and actually enjoyed was the Harry Potter series, which ended just before I went to universi…

Quit your job.

It's not reasonable to do a cognitively demanding job all day and then expect to do cognitively demanding leisure at night. Unemployed people are great readers.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#318

Post by ryanmcbride » Wed, May 08, 2024, 2:03 AM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #311

triceratops wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird. At 9 I randomly picked whatever looked interesting. If I liked it, I proceeded to read every single other thing by that author. There was no "word of mouth" because I was the only kid in my class who read for pleasure.

"[W]ord of mouth" is probably mostly for girls. I never once had a boy tell me growing up that I needed to read a particular book. > I was the only kid in my class who read for pleasure. Nice humblebrag. Also, I find this hard to believe.

I don't really think it's a gender thing, my friends who were boys and I talked about books pretty frequently. They were pretty much the same as videogames, comic books, movies and shows to us so we'd talk about them in the same way.

I specifically remember that when the first Harry Potter (I was a child cut me some slack) came out I bounced off it because I didn't like it, and then one of my friends at school couldn't stop talking about it and got me interested enough to pick it back up.

And don't even get me STARTED on the LotR books. Or Star Trek novelizations (which I still consider books).

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#319

Post by doubled112 » Wed, May 08, 2024, 2:12 AM UTC

lupire wrote: post #317

bluerooibos wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rediscovered reading Any tips? I didn't, somehow. After leaving high school, then university, my brain went into full on "be productive all the time" mode. My brain somehow doesn't think reading is a good use of my time, so I've settled for audiobooks when falling asleep or on long drives. The last book I was able to devour and actually enjoyed was the Harry Potter series, which ended just before I went to universi…

Quit your job. It's not reasonable to do a cognitively demanding job all day and then expect to do cognitively demanding leisure at night. Unemployed people are great readers.

I can use all the books I’ve finished to keep myself and my family warm this winter!

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#320

Post by Cayde-6 » Wed, May 08, 2024, 2:13 AM UTC

lupire wrote: post #313

tpmoney wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me as a kid who loved reading and fell out of it by the time I finished school (and then re-found that love decades later), the biggest contributing factor wasn't 30 minutes of reading for school. It was forced reading of books that were uninteresting to me in the first place, and then having to engage with those books in a wholly artificial way. There's a lot of interesting things to be gleaned from books and ce…

Everyone always complains about the "blue curtains". Did everyone but be ready the same book, or are you just repeating a meme? (for what purpose?) But I do analyze literature and study mathematical formulas in my free time, so maybe I'm built different. It's hard to say what school is doing in wrong when students aren't interested in study. Maybe the answer is to let the mom studious students leave school.

I can confirm, we ”analyzed” the color of the curtains in some novel I now forget. I believe they were, in fact, blue. The teacher was adamant details like that were always meaningful and certainly not just to paint a scene. It was far from the only instance of such “analysis”.

What we actually learned from those lessons was that English/literature class was a waste of time and how to craft complete bullshit that sounds deep, which I guess is a useful skill.