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Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

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Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#411

Post by Eisenstein »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #369
Tade0 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we could collectively ask ourselves what we want and do that, instead of leaving the decision to the most selfish of our kind. That was never a good system to begin with.

>we could collectively ask ourselves what we want and do that That is what democratic countries already do every 3-5 years -- and TTBOMK the system that gets chosen has so far had capitalism as an important component every single time, despite the option to vote for parties that eschew it partly or completely.

The 'capitalism' of FDR looks very much like socialism these days. Maybe our definitions are just fluid.

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#412

Post by Kreutzer »

TMWNN wrote: post #303
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking to my younger sister (college student) the other day, and she mentioned that she and her friends are very reluctant to post their opinions online, especially under their real names. This was a bit of a surprise to me, because she volunteers for the Democrats and is openly lesbian, so I would have thought her opinions are generally a great match for the current cultural milieu. I think maybe part of the…

>>In my private conversations, some of the most boring milquetoast technocratic leftist scholars have grimly foretold that somehow, someday, a mob of their own ideological persuasion will come for them. I saw a good description (on /r/4chan, no less) of leftist NPCs: People who constantly check in on each other to see what the latest things are to embrace/avoid. What a miserable way to live. Caplan's quote sums up th…

Ironic that a good chunk of your comment history is evaluating this or that news story, conspiracy, or talking point from this or that social media outlet. What a miserable way to live.

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#413

Post by Tainnor »

Eisenstein wrote: post #366
notjoemama wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s a matter of choosing content that is served up by algorithm but by finding the content that the algorithm omits. I find I then have to listen for what are truth statements, for verifiable truth statements, and sift out the emotional language. In fact, the more emotional the tone, the more intention I attribute to the engineering of it being shown to me. This has resulted in me looking at and readin…

How do you know when you found that truth nugget? Why do you think content that is excluded from the algorithm is more legitimate? How do you know it was excluded? What do you think about the notion that many/most people who claim they are neither left nor right end up demonstrating that they are actually pretty right-wing?

> What do you think about the notion that many/most people who claim they are neither left nor right end up demonstrating that they are actually pretty right-wing?

I'm not even sure how to respond to that. Maybe this is true for the US, but in other places of the world, societies aren't yet as polarised (although, sadly, it looks as though we're copying the American model more and more).

Maybe you should make it more precise what you mean by left and right, otherwise it's always easy to call something "right-wing" just because it's more to the right than whichever positions you espouse.

(For the record, I always considered myself to be rather center-left, and I still hold many positions that are broadly left-wing, but recent events have made me realise that there's also a huge part of leftism with which I fundamentally disagree, so I'm not sure if I want to call myself that any more.)

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#414

Post by Geisterde »

slimsag wrote: post #212
Geisterde wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have become immunized to algorithmic content curation, I dont know exactly why that happened, but understanding how it works at a surface level I think helped. Im curious if thats a widespread phenomena or not, I suspect it is.

Or, you became aware of the most aggressive aspects of algorithmic curation, feel you are immune now, while not knowing the more subtle ways it has influenced your internalized thinking the past 5 years.

Yea, maybe. Though you can put me on youtube and ill scoll for maybe 15 secondsbefore leaving or searching for the specific content I want. Twitter, facebook, instagram, whatever it is I dont have the interest.

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#416

Post by Eisenstein »

_the_inflator wrote: post #327
pavon wrote: post #124

Recently I was thinking about how I am completely out of touch with the culture of younger generations, and was about to laugh it off cause that's how it is with every generation, but then I realized that I don't even know how I would know. In the past if you wanted to know what kids were listening to, you change the radio station to that new loud one you normally skip, or watch that new TV show that people are going…

>> I have a few younger acquaintances/friends IRL, but they would be the first ones to admit that they don't feel like they fit in with their peers, and even a apart from that its generally best not to project too much based on interactions in my own bubble. Sorry to say, but this is the akin to the “We are all different” meme. The quintessence of the internet and social apps is to organize individual and hence form…

> In Germany for example at the height of the so called student revolution in 1968 a maximum of 10% was actively engaging in protest activities.

I am curious to find out how many people voted and correlate them with protestors.

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#417

Post by Geisterde »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #235
Geisterde wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have become immunized to algorithmic content curation, I dont know exactly why that happened, but understanding how it works at a surface level I think helped. Im curious if thats a widespread phenomena or not, I suspect it is.

I’m pretty skeptical that it’s possible to be immune to algorithmic content curation. It seems more than a little bit like the people who say “hey, mainstream media is all biased, but that’s not a problem for me because I’ve found the sources that are actually true”. How do you choose which content to watch and how does that process exclude algorithmic curation?

I have people I like watching, and find other stuff I like through that persons own recommendations.

If you want my political take, I have searched for intelligence and consistency my entire life without realizing it up until the last few years. Ive been through several different sources, from corporate news to noam chomsky, conspiracy grifters to their critics; learning the truth about what happens in the political realm requires a level of diligence that seems to defy what can be presented to another. It would require so much time to understand all the relationships, motives, and the evidence for them, that it would be a several year endeavor. Given the fact that I have other things to do with my life, I have to start with what values I can follow and the heuristics that can be applied out of them; so I have decided on the nonagression principle, arguementative ethics, anarchocapitalism and their related concepts. I have chosen these because I have found them to be logically and morally consistent, and when idle I occupy my brain by trying to poke holes in these ideas, unsuccessfully to date. Values in hand, and having enough life experience to see that values seperate pro-social and anti-social behavior, I have committed myself to placing those values above whatever day-to-day contrivances I have; however much easier it would be for me to violate those values is not my concern, I follow those values because I value them more than any personal problem I have.

Those values now firmly at the center of my thinking, I can apply the heuristics that can be derived from them, and quickly dismiss propaganda that calls me to any kind of political action. I dont vote, I dont intend to start, and if I am listening to anyone saying anything about politics, even someone I like, I am left only to try to poke holes in whatever they say. This leads to me being the most critical of people I like, which is probably a reasonable way to approach these topics.

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#418

Post by steveBK123 »

anileated wrote: post #349
steveBK123 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One sourcing was this interview with NYT publisher - https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-interview/a... From this part: Are you saying that’s changed? That reporters are just sitting in rooms in front of a screen? I don’t think that’s the case. Of course it’s the case! It’s the least talked-about and most insidious result of the collapse of the business model that historically supported quality journalis…

In the day when a lot happens online, purely sitting in front of a screen it’s possible to produce excellent and deep investigative stories. You do own open-source intelligence, you interview sources, etc., all while in front of the screen. Bellingcat does it on a regular basis, for example. You do not need to step out of your room to spot lies and discrepancies.

Yes & No. Twitter, it is always worth remembering, is not real life.

The opinions you encounter as typical there tend to be the very fringe single digit percents of each political faction. Viewing the world through it exclusively is perilous.

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#419

Post by ruszki »

Robotbeat wrote: post #271
1over137 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm old, but didn't the NYT used to be very right-wing?

20 years ago, when I was right-wing myself (in College Republicans, etc), the AM radio I listened to and people I talked to all thought NYT was very left-wing ("liberal").

Liberalism wasn’t a question of left or right 10+ years ago.

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#420

Post by steveBK123 »

yetanotherloss wrote: post #299
1over137 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm old, but didn't the NYT used to be very right-wing?

The NYT has always gathered the zeitgeist of highly affluent and artsy new Yorkers, who tend to be highly invested in maintaining their status quo. They may not be right wing by principle, but they get there a lot on some subjects by talking to lots of bankers and financiers.

Correct.

The upper crust of Manhattan is filled with left of center people who think taxes on the rich are too low, but they themselves aren't rich (because Manhattan is expensive and they spend/save all their income) and that Trump is bad because he raised their taxes when he capped SALT.

I have friends here who semi-jokingly call me a republican for being more center-left than them & not wanting to watch John Oliver, while they own $10M of rental properties & don't think they are rich. The kind of upper class folks who have laid off numerous people in their career without a hint of remorse, but also think the social safety net is too weak. People who vote for AOC but plan to move to FL for tax purposes. Etc.

Basically the Loro Piana $500 ballcap demographic.

This is your NYT reader.

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