Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

english.elpais.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 443 posts

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#411

Post by imtringued »

zozbot234 wrote: post #207
nicoburns wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We may have not experienced prolonged pain, but we all have experienced suffering Sure, but people rarely consider suicide due to momentary suffering, or even suffering for a few weeks or month. People typically consider suicide when they can't see an end to their suffering, and while this is sometimes irrational there are also many cases where it isn't.

I've already pointed out that suffering is inherent to life for most of us, so it encompasses far more than "a few weeks or month[s]". You seem to be focusing on the aversion of physical or spiritual pain, but that's merely one sort of suffering which is not different in nature from the far subtler and less obvious suffering we all experience throughout our lives.

Ok, good that I don't have to care about this type of suffering then.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#412

Post by rrgok »

JohnBooty wrote: post #400
rrgok wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, maybe other people said the same thing. I didn't read the whole thread yet. I'm gonna pick you and the line "desire to pass my genes to the future". I'm gonna ask you some genuine questions about it, so please if you can I would appreciate your point of view. What is this desire, how does it feel? I've never felt it. Is it a thought process or do you feel it in your body? (like hunger, sexual attraction...…

We made the choice not to have children, but I do feel that desire to pass on my genes. What's it like? sexual desire is like taking a piss I would say it's less of a basic biological desire like peeing or sneezing, and more like... esoteric/abstract concepts like "the desire to do good" or "the desire to achieve." I realize it's not really a logical desire, and even though I do feel it, it's far from my highest prio…

I see, thank you for your point of view. There are times I feel lonely, even though I like to be alone most of the time, and when that happens I wonder if having a child would've changed anything.

It really must be an "abstract" feeling, because I cannot get to that feeling in any way.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#413

Post by rrgok »

argiopetech wrote: post #405
rrgok wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, maybe other people said the same thing. I didn't read the whole thread yet. I'm gonna pick you and the line "desire to pass my genes to the future". I'm gonna ask you some genuine questions about it, so please if you can I would appreciate your point of view. What is this desire, how does it feel? I've never felt it. Is it a thought process or do you feel it in your body? (like hunger, sexual attraction...…

No apology needed! I've not previously considered this in the depth needed to answer your question. I've tried my best to think seriously about your question and represent my true opinion faithfully, which has been a valuable exercise. I regret I haven't made it shorter, but 4 hours is about all I can afford to spend. > What is this desire, how does it feel? I've never felt it. > Is it a thought process or do you fee…

Thank you very much for taking the time. You've done more than enough. I will take my time to think about the things you wrote. There are a lot of interesting bits you wrote.

Thank you again!

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#414

Post by zozbot234 »

imtringued wrote: post #411
zozbot234 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've already pointed out that suffering is inherent to life for most of us, so it encompasses far more than "a few weeks or month[s]". You seem to be focusing on the aversion of physical or spiritual pain, but that's merely one sort of suffering which is not different in nature from the far subtler and less obvious suffering we all experience throughout our lives.

Ok, good that I don't have to care about this type of suffering then.

What if I told you that you don't have to care about any kind of suffering, other than perhaps some very rare extremes of physical pain. That's the point!

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#415

Post by benj111 »

effingwewt wrote: post #384
benj111 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you count yourself as suicidal? This rings true to me, I wouldn't describe myself as suicidal though.

Not sure. I attempted it once as a young man, but my roommate found me passed out with a foamy mouth and got me to the hospital. I will say I think a lot about that, and how much pain I'd have saved myself had I simply locked my door. As I mentioned it's a struggle I know I will lose one day, it's just a question of when. Days like today it's hard to breathe. Like my chest/body feel weighty. I try not to think about…

>Is that suicidal? I don't know

Well it's up to you how you describe yourself.

It sounds like you're further along the path than me. I can find few reasons to continue existing, but that doesn't translate into a desire to end it all. Just a lack of motivation etc.

I guess I just assumed there was more a gap between where I am now and suicide. And this article and various comments here suggest that gap isn't as big as I'd like.

Anyway stay safe, and if it's nice out, have a good long walk.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#416

Post by hammyhavoc »

People who kill themselves do it for all kinds of different reasons.

Counterpoints: suicide bombers, murder-suicides, being under duress, wanting to maintain dignity or honour, doing it in anticipation of a drastic reduction in quality of life even if they aren't currently suffering. Plenty of others too.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#417

Post by pnt12 »

qwytw wrote: post #272
phonescreen_man wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No such thing as an addictive personality- it was invented by the pharmaceutical companies (the term) to play down the addictive effects of their drugs, doctors were told only people with addictive personalities will get hooked on the opioids

I can't say much about 'personalities' but it has been quite consistently demonstrated that some people are genetically predisposed and more likely to become addicted to certain substances than others regardless of social factors or even (pre-addiction) consumption patterns.

I also think there's something to it: each person is different.

I've smoked and quit a couple of times, and still get urges to go back sometimes. Meanwhile, I know people who casually smoke once in a while and don't get the habit.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#418

Post by lupire »

2devnull wrote: post #184
atchoo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He might only teach as a counter-example. He may be advocating for highly dysfunctional irrational thinking patterns that leads to suicide. They might be convincing, seductive and dangerous and should only be responsibly presented with clear context and challenge.

I like the idea that DFW is such a good writer that his words cause death. That would be a great plot device.

One of Hofstadter's books has a story about that.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#419

Post by lupire »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #140
niea_11 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another relevant quote by David foster wallace : The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will e…

i think this opinion is simply wrong. a lot of people do kill themselves out of a feeling of hopelessness. and yes, for some death seems very appealing at some point especially given a painless method. every time i read something by dfw i get the impression that he was just a little bit too infatuated with his eloquence and putting style over substance.

You are overindexing on the word "hopelessness", which isn't even defined.

Are you claiming that a lot of people are attracted to their death more than repulsed from their life, or (as DFW wrote) that they recognize death as the best option?

Outside of a religious death cult with ideas of heaven, I don't see people with painless lives attracted to death.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#420

Post by cmehdy »

theGnuMe wrote: post #401
cmehdy wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have generalized anxiety disorder along with the lifelong depression. My life has felt like a permanent "emergency mode" from the inside, and with how my body processes things. The funny consequence is that I've been at multiple points a helpful anchor for healthier people in actual emergency situations, from panic attacks to much scarier things. When the house is on fire I'm feeling most at peace as the world and…

Yeah sounds like you are in constant hypervigilance mode which is part of the limbic system for fight or flight. It is exhausting. It can be very hard to identify the root cause especially if it is a state that developed from childhood but its a coping mechanism to stress. It was likely adaptive for something in your past but that you likely don't need anymore... and as you say some events you've experienced so you m…

I probably have a few things that contribute to a case of CPTSD. Some things can help me (parts of CBT/DBT, zen koans, meds..). But it's also difficult to change a thing that is a feature of you, in that it has been there for so long that everything else was built around it.

Just like maths problems, getting to the core of things often requires making your life harder for a while before coming back to the surface - and I can't always afford to do that unfortunately. The brain really is a weird and fascinating thing..

Post reply on HN