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Nobody wants to teach anymore

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Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#411

Post by bobthepanda »

plorkyeran wrote: post #356
Teever wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what do you propose, that they send out applications at random to households in the community? There is bias in everything, but at least they aren't adding more than needs there needs to be.

Pointing out that a bias exists is not always a call to eliminate that bias. The fact that merely requiring an application rather than being the default option improves average outcomes isn't a problem that needs to be solved. It's just something that should be kept in mind when comparing schools.

Right.

At some point, some school is going to have to take the kids who don’t bother applying, since we can’t put 100% of schools behind an application and preserve its benefits, and we should not be surprised that such schools do worse, if the ones who do apply happen to be better.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#412

Post by prepend »

tristor wrote: post #391
_vdpp wrote: post #98

A few random thoughts: 1. For as much as we spend on education, teachers seem to be grossly underpaid - to be getting robbed of their share of the budget. Where does that money go? 2. It seems that education degrees are seen as easier to achieve than others. 3. Teachers frequently complain about how they are unappreciated, yet children spend _12 years_ in their care. Why do people come up to them and say they hated s…

1. Administrators. We have insane administrative bloat, especially in higher ed. In some institutions there is nearly a 1:1 count of administrators to faculty. Ironically, given the social politics implied by the author, a significant amount of administration bloat is specifically tied to DEI. 2. Well, they are. A teaching certification used to only require two years of higher learning compared to typical 4 for other…

Administration seems to be entirely manually based and has lots of positions that should be consolidated or automated.

For example, each school in my county has at least one person dedicated to managing iPads and tech equipment. This isn’t the networking and server support or even desktop support, that’s done centrally. This is just a human who hands them out, collects them, and processes warranty claims. The person knows nothing about the equipment and is basically just an asset manager.

That’s one of many examples of people who don’t perform much value add and take resources from higher priorities. Why not hire a dedicated librarian who also manages devices but can help with organizing information, research, etc.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#413

Post by [deleted] »

DangitBobby wrote: post #336
weatherlite wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3. Teachers frequently complain about how they are unappreciated, yet children spend _12 years_ in their care. Why do people come up to them and say they hated school rather than “thank you”? Well many students hated school, it is what it is. If you get beat up on a daily basis or are bored out of your mind (because let's face it, most of the material IS boring) I don't see why you should feel obligated to thank yo…

I agree that there are reasons someone would hate school, but it doesn't make sense for it to be a cultural norm to say that to teachers. No one ever says "wow you murder people for Uncle Sam for money?" to someone who was in the military, they say "thank you for your service". I think that's what the author was getting at. It's not just low pay; teaching is thankless, even looked down upon.

[deleted]

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#415

Post by AnAnonymousDude »

greenie_beans wrote: post #358
msrenee wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teaching pays nothing compared to CS, finance, basically most things you need a degree for. Those brilliant individuals who would like to teach have to decide if their passion is worth making less money than some warehouses are paying around here. Those who don't have the grades or abilities to reach for the higher-paid fields have less of a dilemma. We're actively selecting against the candidates who have more lucra…

I work in tech and would likely teach if it paid the same. My plan has always been to front load my retirement savings early in my career through tech so that I can take a lower paying teaching job when I'm older.

Same position here, though I realized it a bit later in life. Currently mid 30s and hoping to be out of tech by 40.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#416

Post by prepend »

jschveibinz wrote: post #365

I am an early-retired EE and I thought that I could have a second career in teaching HS physics. I got the MA Teaching in Maryland, and did my one year student teaching assignment. My thoughts: 1. The degree program was decent, although a certificate program would be better for prior professionals if the law allowed it (lower cost, too much wasted time in redundant classes). 2. Teachers are sad. Very sad. They are un…

> teachers work more in 9 months than most professionals

I want to understand this more and think we need to measure this well.

As a software dev, I’ve always struggled with measuring the amount of work performed and usually disregard measures of intellectual output as misleading measures (eg, lines of code, story points completed, whatever).

What makes you think teachers work more in 9 months than a typical professional (engineer, attorney, healthcare worker) does in an entire year? Wouldn’t it then make sense for these teachers to change professions? Or other professionals to teach? Or is everyone just stupid? Or just really dedicated to teaching as a passion?

I only have my own experience but I’ve always had a stack of work after hours- training, mentoring, networking. And I assumed all professions have this kind of additional metawork that is unpaid. Is it harder to tutor a student than to mentor someone?

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#417

Post by MarcScott »

thisarticle wrote: post #396
MarcScott wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was teaching I worked a 7am to 6pm job, 5 days a week. That was actually in the school building, so that's 55 hours right there. The two hours in the morning and two hours in the afternoon, when I wasn't looking after 35 teenagers in a small, hot and unventilated classroom, were spent marking, planning lessons and writing reports. Have you ever had a job where you literally have to plan how much you drink, so…

I’m curious about what you’re doing now. I hope it’s healthier than what you described as your experience as a teacher.

Still in education, but now I work for the Raspberry Pi Foundation in the charitable sector.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#418

Post by d4rti »

sul_tasto wrote: post #71
zmgsabst wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to admit managerialism fails at knowledge fields — perhaps Taylorism entirely. I’m not sure what’s better, though.

I wholeheartedly agree. I think a critical examination of the MBA degree, and the values it embodies, is long overdue.

MBAs:

- do not improve

  - output
  - investment
  - employment growth
  - sales
  - profit
- do

  - reduce employee wages
Source : https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w29874/w298...

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#419

Post by CharlesW »

elforce002 wrote: post #405
tristor wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Administrators. We have insane administrative bloat, especially in higher ed. In some institutions there is nearly a 1:1 count of administrators to faculty. Ironically, given the social politics implied by the author, a significant amount of administration bloat is specifically tied to DEI. 2. Well, they are. A teaching certification used to only require two years of higher learning compared to typical 4 for other…

This is true in almost every country. Education is a money pit.

> Education is a money pit.

How exactly do you mean this?

The U.S. spent $90.5 billion for "Elementary, Secondary, and Vocational Education" in 2021* (a subset of "Education, Training, Employment, and Social Services"), which is 1.3% of $6.82 trillion in total 2021 government expenditures. Compare to $696.5B for Medicare, $754.8B for National Defense, etc.

If anything, this illustrates how relatively unimportant a base level of education is in the U.S.

* https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/spend...

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#420

Post by seibelj »

mnd999 wrote: post #369
seibelj wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, the voucher system is correct - keep funding public school through tax dollars, but give the parents a voucher for the amount to spend where they wish. If every parent in Boston received a $25,000 voucher to spend at the school they wished, competition would force public schools to improve or shut down as every school vied for the vouchers. Unlike many on the left, who despise monopolies in business an…

I would just ban private schools and home schooling entirely, and make everyone go to public schools. The standards would improve in no time.

Thank goodness in America we have the constitution to prevent such authoritarian activity.
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