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Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

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Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#411

Post by sudosysgen »

TAKEMYMONEY wrote: post #384
sudosysgen wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, honestly, a good aluminium frame is preferable to carbon for 90% of people. The small tradeoff in weight and vibration/stiffness characteristics is really not worth the loss in structural integrity, money, and peace of mind.

Modern carbon frames are designed with structural integrity in mind, the frame-building process allows more fine-tuning than aluminum. Aluminum's best quality is it's value, you can wreck one and buy another and still have spent less than a low-grade CF frame.

Not quite. Carbon fiber is a composite. Structural integrity is not one dimensional, and while carbon fiber frames are great in their intended loads, they are bad in puncture and abrasion, and that is inherent to carbon fiber.

It is so much easier to wreck a carbon fiber frame than an alu frame. It just takes one pointy rock or one bad slide. Whereas an alu frame will only receive cosmetic damage

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#412

Post by pram »

smoldesu wrote: post #297
Avamander wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That graph is about light load. The Intel is fast only with a ridiculous power usage, thus low runtime. It comes nowhere close to the M1's runtime when forced to the same high load.

Well... yeah. Apple is running 5nm silicon, there's no way Intel can squeeze the same battery life out of that performance profile on their 10nm node. The flip side of this coin is that it's really good battery life for casual use, and it's not like that performance is going nowhere : it's thrashing the M1 in benchmarks. I think things will get a lot more interesting in 2024, when Intel and Apple are on similar nodes…

The focus on node size conveniently elides that this is a comparison between a 14 core CPU and an 8 core CPU.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#413

Post by smoldesu »

pram wrote: post #412
smoldesu wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... yeah. Apple is running 5nm silicon, there's no way Intel can squeeze the same battery life out of that performance profile on their 10nm node. The flip side of this coin is that it's really good battery life for casual use, and it's not like that performance is going nowhere : it's thrashing the M1 in benchmarks. I think things will get a lot more interesting in 2024, when Intel and Apple are on similar nodes…

The focus on node size conveniently elides that this is a comparison between a 14 core CPU and an 8 core CPU.

How is that relevant, though? Even the M1 Max gets smoked by an i5 in single-core performance, and stands neck-and-neck in multicore. In a "fair" fight, Intel still takes the performance crown home. Density is relevant because the only argument I hear from M1 pundits is about performance-per-watt, which is only achieved through monopolizing the 5nm supply chain. When Intel is standing neck-and-neck on power draw with significantly higher clock speeds, single-core performance and IO bandwith, Apple's chips are going to lose their luster.

Plus, it's not like you need to use ARM to compete with that efficiency. Just 2 years ago AMD was shipping Ryzen laptop chips (like the 4800u) with similar x86 performance at a similar price point in a similar power envelope. How'd they do it? They designed it with 7nm lithography. It's not magic, just the obvious benefits of using the latest technology.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#414

Post by kaladin-jasnah »

capableweb wrote: post #146
xeornet wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to try the M1 chips!

If they weren't so damn expensive I would have already! Also waiting for Asahi Linux to mature before I'd even consider it, really hard to abandon Linux ecosystem once you've gotten used to it. I would never be able to replicate the productivity and the UX of my desktop setup with macOS, so Linux support is a must for me at this point.

Someone on HN will be sure to remind that you're using macOS wrong.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#415

Post by make3 »

parasense wrote: post #407

We use this exact same laptop at Red Hat, and meh! I like the laptop sometimes, but I've actually had plenty of times where it's more of a pain. For example, I run multiple 4k displays on my desktop, and using the Lenovo thunderbolt docking station with multiple 4k displays does not work. two 1440p displays are fine, but not two 4k UHD displays. Another issue Iv'e seen is the laptop simply reboots mysteriously, presu…

this doesn't really sound like the type of workload a laptop should be evaluated on... although it is an extremely strong laptop so without gaming I wonder what the intended workload really is

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#416

Post by _0w8t »

parasense wrote: post #407

We use this exact same laptop at Red Hat, and meh! I like the laptop sometimes, but I've actually had plenty of times where it's more of a pain. For example, I run multiple 4k displays on my desktop, and using the Lenovo thunderbolt docking station with multiple 4k displays does not work. two 1440p displays are fine, but not two 4k UHD displays. Another issue Iv'e seen is the laptop simply reboots mysteriously, presu…

To prevent overheating on my X1 ThinkPad under Fedora I set the CPU governor to the power safe mode. As an added benefit it makes the laptop almost silent even when using all the cores/threads to compile huge C++ code base that may the memory usage towards 32 GB. Surely it compiles slower, but the slowdown is less than 25%

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#417

Post by phyalow »

stuff4ben wrote: post #387
tim-- wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to sound too snarky, but I don't think you got the point of my post. I love the M1, it's a great work machine, I have very few complaints about it. I hardly ever hit 100% memory usage, and if I do - it's thanks to either Chrome/Spotify/Teams/Slack/Discord. I think - and this might be a bit controversial - the ThinkBook is better... because it is. The M1 is a great chip, awesome thermals (no fan!), but th…

To each their own. I'd have spec'ed that MacBook Pro out to 16GB though. I don't do Windows and I have on-prem cloud VMs (config'd for 32GB) for Linux. I don't need a Linux desktop (shudder!) either. I'm sure your THinkBook is great, but I prefer the Apple ecosystem and the "shit just works" of my Mac (although I'm still on an i9).

100% my flow too after a lot of experimentation. I have had several clunker lenovo machines and have run linux as a daily driver on and off for several years (I always wanted it to work, it was just infuriating with random glitches and the verbosity required to get a sane setup stable).

M1 MacBooks are legit, the Pro is the best machine I have ever owned by a long shot (several X1's, T Series etc) the screens are beautiful and I can get on and do whatever I need without worrying about glitches. I run commodity cloud linux VM's on things I need to deploy/monitor, its FAR easier (imo) to write the software on my Mac and then move it out.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#418

Post by ptsneves »

csdvrx wrote: post #280
ptsneves wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By not using Grub you lose the ability to fallback on a safe kernel. That may be quite dangerous depending on how reliable kernel update is for you. I have been saved by kernel fallbacks before. Double that for laptops whose ACPI drivers randomly break from version to version, as evidenced by your note on 5.17.x kernels. Regardless I sympathize, as I recently had a good deal of trouble updating from BIOS to UEFI. The…

> By not using Grub you lose the ability to fallback on a safe kernel That is factually wrong: if you create other EFI entries with different kernel payloads, then enroll them in your UEFI bios, you can select them at boot time in a menu. This is how I test cmdline options (same kernel packaged in different .EFI) If you forgot to do that before a problem, but still have the old payloads around, you can even use the U…

Hmm seems we disagree so it is not factually wrong, but a matter of where you draw the line at fallback.

I am not an expert in uefi but my uefi system does not give me the ability to pass command line arguments to the kernel. I actually went to check and took a picture[1].

According to your statement that means you need a working system to repack your kernel if you do not use grub. That kind of proves the opposite of what you write.

With grub you can set kernel arguments in an ephemeral way by just interrupting the boot. In the past, when testing failing kernels it was mighty useful to add a magic argument to the kernel.

[1] https://ibb.co/6vS1VX9

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#419

Post by xemdetia »

pmontra wrote: post #95
plafl wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to exactly post this. I previously had a HP ZBook with Nvidia Quadro inside and although I managed to get it running nicely I recently bought an LG Gram with integrated graphics and I'm not looking back. Both came with a Windows which I immediatly changed to Linux. If you are not into gaming you can save big bucks and weight buying a laptop with integrated graphics. If you need a GPU for work you most probably…

I also own a ZBook and I looked at an LG Gram as a possible replacement in case something happens to my laptop. I use the 3 physical buttons (click, paste - a Linux thing, right click) and the LG doesn't have them. That made me immediately discard the idea. On the other side this Lenovo has the physical buttons. I wonder how terrible the touchpad actually is. I only need to move the pointer and scroll. No gestures, n…

If you don't care about gestures as they've always been fine in my experience. I can't speak for gestures because the only one I use is right click (two finger tap). But for pointing the cursor and pulling the trigger the touchpad/trackpoint works fine I use both constantly since sometimes the trackpoint is easier to reach or the touchpad is easier to reach. I also use both sets of buttons as well as sometimes it's easier to have your left hand at home position and your right hand trackpaddin' but you use your thumb on space to left click.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#420

Post by kaladin-jasnah »

Avamander wrote: post #174
e12e wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I don't think Linux on an m1 Mac is going to be viable in the near term - I don't think it's all that relevant as a Linux workstation?

It does seem fairly usable already. I'd say it's going to be viable as a primary workstation sooner than later, but things like polished GPU drivers will take more time. There are other ARM machines as well, that run Linux more easily, but those aren't as high-performance yet.

I don't think something is usable without GPU acceleration.
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