Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

mitadmissions.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 1001 posts

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#411

Post by throwawayozy »

bmc7505 wrote: post #58
Animats wrote: post #20

All MIT students, regardless of intended major, must pass two semesters of calculus, plus two semesters of calculus-based physics, as part of our General Institute Requirements. ... There is no path through MIT that does not rest on a rigorous foundation in mathematics, and we need to be sure our students are ready for that as soon as they arrive. For a period in the 1980s-1990s, you could argue that calculus was not…

Calculus is not just about gradients. Fundamentally, calculus is about calculation and symbolic logic, a much older concept that predates its usage in gradient-based machine learning. In this sense, calculus holds deep connections to logical reasoning, proof theory and the foundations of computer science. [1] [1]: https://compcalc.github.io/

No post body was provided.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#412

Post by whynotminot »

londons_explore wrote: post #277
uwuemu wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue exactly otherwise... with the advent of the web platform and frameworks like .net, the vast majority (and I mean like 95%) of developers will never touch anything ML related in their careers. I mean, I get that this is MIT and many of their students will end up working with ML, but applying that globally to CS is nonsense. Back when I was studying CS (cze) more than a decade ago, we had to pass linear a…

If you just want to be a great web developer, MIT may not be the best place for you. MIT best prepares people for those less well defined roles, such as designing the next era of web browsers . For that, you can never know exactly which skills will be needed, so it's probably best to have as many neighbouring skills as possible so you don't hit problems you can't solve merely because the knowledge required to see the…

Hmm I’m not sure I really agree with this. Does MIT (or any university) teach the creativity needed to envision the kind of thing you’re talking about? Or like most universities, is it just teaching some foundational skills coupled with whatever has condensed into “required reading” from industry over the last couple decades? Just with a higher pedigree and ostensibly better prepared student body.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#413

Post by SamReidHughes »

MiroF wrote: post #366
tzs wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of students trying to get into MIT I wonder if there is actually much point in gaming the test? The article says they are using the tests as a threshold. It sounds like they don't care by how much you pass the threshold, just that you have passed it. I'd expect that most students who will be able to survive at MIT can make the SAT threshold with no gaming of the test and no test prep other than maybe doin…

> I'd expect that most students who will be able to survive at MIT can make the SAT threshold with no gaming of the test and no test prep other than maybe doing one or two free sample tests. Eh, not so sure. The "threshold", if we really trust that they do threshold and don't consider overperformance beyond that threshold (something I am skeptical of), is likely quite high.

The MIT threshold is 800 minus noise. So MIT can't consider overperformance on the SAT (math section) because the test is designed to make students indistinguishable at the top. All it does is help them weed out the chaff who won't be able to handle the mandatory math and physics classes that all students have to pass.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#414

Post by david38 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #299
david38 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a very rich town, like super rich. I work in tech so am rich by the standards of general population, but by the standards of Silicon Valley. My child did very well on the ACT. All she did was buy a $35 practice book, which almost anyone can do. Literally this was it. Furthermore, she doesn’t know of a single friend or acquaintance that hired a private tutor. All the nay-sayers belly-ache about this but for…

You aren't rich if you have to work and you're relying on what a high school student tells you who doesn't know all the details of the lives of other students, just what they tell her. In my experience as a student, other students will keep their tutoring and hand-ups under wraps.

I talk to a lot of parents. Most are quite open with their tactics.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#415

Post by david38 »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #298
david38 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a very rich town, like super rich. I work in tech so am rich by the standards of general population, but by the standards of Silicon Valley. My child did very well on the ACT. All she did was buy a $35 practice book, which almost anyone can do. Literally this was it. Furthermore, she doesn’t know of a single friend or acquaintance that hired a private tutor. All the nay-sayers belly-ache about this but for…

>I live in a very rich town, like super rich. >My child did very well on the ACT. All she did was buy a $35 practice book, which almost anyone can do. I don't intend to belittle anyone's accomplishments, but there's a lot more to high ACT scores than a $35 book, no?

Indeed, and primary among them are parents.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#416

Post by kragen »

adfgadfgaery wrote: post #17
globuous wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's surprising though, is that APs and similar exams are not enough. In the UK, I though they essentially looked at A Level results, which are much more representative of what you'll actually study at uni. But I guess both SAT/ACTs & APs must be a better measure that just APs. I just remember fucking hating studying for the SATs though. So boring. SAT IIs were somewhat fun to study for though. In France for instan…

>What's surprising though, is that APs and similar exams are not enough. That isn't what they said. They said that access to those tests is not universal. Students from high schools that don't offer AP classes would have a hard time taking AP exams. This would exclude people from rural or impoverished areas. This is why the SAT and ACT are useful: they are meant to be aptitude tests. They are IQ tests in disguise. If…

I passed the AP calc exam without a class. But that had a lot more to do with motivation and interest and a sense of entitlement than with aptitude. I wish everyone had my sense of entitlement, but they don't, and classes do seem to make a passable substitute.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#417

Post by pishpash »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #348
londons_explore wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you just want to be a great web developer, MIT may not be the best place for you. MIT best prepares people for those less well defined roles, such as designing the next era of web browsers . For that, you can never know exactly which skills will be needed, so it's probably best to have as many neighbouring skills as possible so you don't hit problems you can't solve merely because the knowledge required to see the…

Of course if I browse linkedin MIT EECS grads, most are probably just doing bug fixing at FAANG or the latest unicorn and some small fraction are doing anything revolutionary. It's also likely that they would have done so without an MIT education. See e.g the Collison brothers.

Learning about those things aren't necessary for those jobs but they prove that you're capable of learning something, and as such is a part of the FAANG acceptance process.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#418

Post by david38 »

mbesto wrote: post #268
david38 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a very rich town, like super rich. I work in tech so am rich by the standards of general population, but by the standards of Silicon Valley. My child did very well on the ACT. All she did was buy a $35 practice book, which almost anyone can do. Literally this was it. Furthermore, she doesn’t know of a single friend or acquaintance that hired a private tutor. All the nay-sayers belly-ache about this but for…

> All the nay-sayers belly-ache about this but for most children, even the “rich” ones, this simply isn’t true. It’s most definitely not necessary. I'd rather trust studies than your anecdote. Just saying.

Of course. Show me a study that compares motivated self-study with classes.

Two SAT tutors have responded to the thread and supported me.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#419

Post by whynotminot »

lliamander wrote: post #386
opportune wrote: post #211

I am so happy to see this. I went to high school in a bit of a backwater in the US. People don’t really go to selective colleges or care much about applying. It was only doing very well on standardized tests and spending time on the internet looking for info about colleges that led me to believe I could go to one of these places. I got into several and attended one, and I believe it greatly positively changed my life…

> Removing admission tests was a huge slap in the face to social mobility out of the middle class. I agree, but arguably the benefits of the SAT with regard to class mobility is less than it was when it was introduced. The heritability of IQ, combined with assortative mating, means that increasingly class divides are forming around differences in IQ. I think many people are rightly concerned that this will eventually…

> The heritability of IQ, combined with assortative mating, means that increasingly class divides are forming around differences in IQ.

Do you have a citation for this?

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#420

Post by bee_rider »

vmception wrote: post #110
Animats wrote: post #20

All MIT students, regardless of intended major, must pass two semesters of calculus, plus two semesters of calculus-based physics, as part of our General Institute Requirements. ... There is no path through MIT that does not rest on a rigorous foundation in mathematics, and we need to be sure our students are ready for that as soon as they arrive. For a period in the 1980s-1990s, you could argue that calculus was not…

and this is why trade schools like coding bootcamps are relevant at all people aren't going to school to learn computer science, they are going to school to get a job and be effective in that field, but the universities shouldn't feel obligated to adjust to that since they've been for the privileged folks who are actually there to pursue education for the sake of higher learning for nearly 200 years (or much longer).…

Also community colleges. We should fund community colleges to the point where bootcamps cease to exist.
Post reply on HN