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A simple system I’m using to stay in touch with hundreds of people

jakobgreenfeld.com

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Re: A simple system I’m using to stay in touch with hundreds of people

#411
post #331

(I'm the guy he refers to in that post.) If anyone reading this builds software like this, and releases it publicly, whether free or for sale, please let me know. I'd be happy to send people your way. Because of https://sive.rs/dbt I get a few emails a week from strangers, asking if my software is public yet, or if not, what else I would recommend. (And I might never make my software public. It's too tied-in to my no…

Hi Derek! My implementation of your system is just a bunch of markdown files. The title of the file is a friend's name, the frontmatter at the top keeps info about them that doesn't change too often (ex: birthday, address, kids names), and each time I chat with them I add a section with an H1 title that's the date we chatted (ex: "# 2022-02-14\n"). My notes about the chat go under that heading. Based off of that stru…

Sorry to butt in, but this is a fallacy that I see expressed a lot (and shares a lot of similarities to the "computers can execute improperly-typed programs" fallacy), and that has caused a non-trivial amount of harm.

>> If digital, use only plain text. It’s a standard format not owned by any company.

This is fine for anything where you don't care about the computer processing your data (e.g. a journal where you don't care about tagging or sorting by date or whatever), but it sounds like you do (based on "Based off of that structure I can do a bunch of cool things with simple scripts"), so:

"Plain text" is mutually exclusive with machine-parsing, because "plain text" is not a format. If I create a text file for each of my friends, and somewhere in each file is an English-language description of my friend's name, then that is both (a) plain-text and (b) not machine-parseable at all.

A "format" is necessarily structured - something like "each line of this file represents a "row", which is divided into "fields" by commas". But then you don't have a plain-text file - you have CSV, or JSON, or something that's a subset of "plain text file", but is still a structured, machine-parseable format.

Even if you do what I did and create your own ad-hoc format like "text files are broken into "blobs", where each blob is separated from others by a blank line, and has a header consisting of the blob name..." - that's still not plain text. You've still invented your own structured-object-embedded-in-text format - except that because you aren't using JSON or XML or CSV, you're incompatible with every tool in existence, and have to write tools to parse, lint, generate, and process these files yourself.

(and, hence, it's not a "standard format" - each ad-hoc plain-text-embedded format is different, except for the ones that are either accidentally exactly the same, or the ones that are standardized and have names - at which point plain-text purists claim that they're no longer plain-text)

You use Markdown - which means that you have all of the problems above, because Markdown encodes formatting, not structure. You even alluded to it yourself - you say that "...I can do a bunch of cool things with simple scripts" because you had to write those scripts to handle your own custom format, instead of just using JSON and writing data["first-name"] in Python.

It's your system, so you can do what you want - just don't fool yourself (or others) into believing that you're saving effort, because you're not - you're just reinventing a wheel that has been reinvented millions of times before.

(this isn't meant to be a random rant - I'm currently in the middle of rewriting my own system from using my own custom, ad-hoc structured text format to using s-expressions and typed objects. there's hundreds of thousands of objects spanning thousands of files, and the process is absolutely miserable - I want to save as many other people from having to go through this as I can)

Re: A simple system I’m using to stay in touch with hundreds of people

#412
This is exactly what I need. I'm so bad at keeping in contact with friends, extended family, ex-coworkers. I try to make an effort for a few weeks / months, but I end up getting distracted by a stressful new work project, school, new stuff going on at home, etc.

Re: A simple system I’m using to stay in touch with hundreds of people

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The biggest reason I don't maintain contact with people from my past is I was a much worse person in my past and I'm either embarrassed about my behavior or concerned that my shittiness is what led to our relationship in the first place. I feel the same. In fact, I intentionally avoid interacting with people from my past since they may have bad memories involving me that I'd be resurfacing by contacting them. I've…

I do the same, but it often makes me worried about what kind of person I am. I don't really have too much to apologize about - at least that I know of. But for some reason, I tend to grow apart from people who know my past or who simply know too much about me. Not every single one of them, but apart from very few people, this is the case. I think it's safe to say I have trust issues, but I never understood why, as I…

If you don't like people knowing too much about you, consider reading up on schizoid personality disorder. I'm not saying that you have it, but that particular foible is certainly reminiscent of it.

Re: A simple system I’m using to stay in touch with hundreds of people

#414
One of my mom’s friends has a great method for keeping in touch with people. He keeps one of those daily tear-off calendars (filled with cat/dad jokes) on his desk. Each day he looks at the joke and decides who it reminds him, then just tears that page off and mails it to the person, along with his business card. No further explanation or note involved. I guess he just needs a lot of stamps.

Re: A simple system I’m using to stay in touch with hundreds of people

#415
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Derek! My implementation of your system is just a bunch of markdown files. The title of the file is a friend's name, the frontmatter at the top keeps info about them that doesn't change too often (ex: birthday, address, kids names), and each time I chat with them I add a section with an H1 title that's the date we chatted (ex: "# 2022-02-14\n"). My notes about the chat go under that heading. Based off of that stru…

That's amazing! In 25+ years of keeping people in my database, and writing plain text all day, I'd never once considered keeping my list of people in plain text files. Thanks for the description and inspiration.

You bet! You're also one of my heroes so I'd be absolutely delighted to chat with you more about this problem on a call or something.

Re: A simple system I’m using to stay in touch with hundreds of people

#416
I'm curious to hear your results from using this system. How long have you been running it for and what did you get out of it? I understand that the point of doing this is to not expect anything in return but, that's a little misleading because it's hard to have honest conversations in regular frequencies with people you barely know (B, C, D list). What do you do when people don't respond? Do you take them off the list?

Re: A simple system I’m using to stay in touch with hundreds of people

#417
post #332

Derek Sivers seems kinda cool. I mean, I used to read him back in the times of CDBaby and he seemed like a nice person. Of course, I can only say he seems so because I haven't really met him. I don't know him. Later, I would receive some of his emails and while they always did feel honest and thoughtful, I always understood we'd never even talked to each other. Sometimes I could think it was "just a commercial email"…

Thanks for this feedback. For what it's worth, the “keep in touch with hundreds” system I describe in this post is not the one you've encountered me using. It sounds like you're just on my list, as you said. The “keep in touch” approach is more for the people you meet in-person, say if you go to conferences and meet 50 people in a weekend, or are out working as a musician constantly meeting fellow music industry peop…

Oh, hi :)

I hope I didn't say anything inconvenient. I sincerely appreciate you even if we've never met.

And thank you for the clarification, of course.

Re: A simple system I’m using to stay in touch with hundreds of people

#418
I find this pretty sad to be honest. How would you feel if you were on a B or C list and got some kind of shallow, automated message like this? For me it would probably do the opposite by showing me that you don’t actually value me or our friendship, just the outcome. Like an SEO guru type or something, full of shallow words.

Friendships, like any relationship, require work. And, given we are human, nuance and authenticity too. I text people when I think about them. Occasionally I’ll scroll through my text message history to see if someone I care about hasn’t heard from me or viceversa in a while. Sometimes it leads to a text-convo, a phone convo, or IRL plans.

If you struggle with friendships and see an article like this as a way to “hack” the system, I caution you to think twice. Less is more. Cultivate your tender friend garden with intention, not automation.

Re: A simple system I’m using to stay in touch with hundreds of people

#419

I find this pretty sad to be honest. How would you feel if you were on a B or C list and got some kind of shallow, automated message like this? For me it would probably do the opposite by showing me that you don’t actually value me or our friendship, just the outcome. Like an SEO guru type or something, full of shallow words. Friendships, like any relationship, require work. And, given we are human, nuance and authen…

I was just reading a blog complaining about commenters not reading the article, and the next comment I read on a completely different article did not RTFQ.

> got some kind of shallow, automated message like this?

Jakob describes how after he is reminded of the person in the morning, he researches what has happened to them since he last spoke and finds some genuine content/connection to send to that person.

Re: A simple system I’m using to stay in touch with hundreds of people

#420
I don't think there's a problem with the formula here in terms of maintaining professional contacts, but it does seem like an interesting--and quite recent--phenomenon that staying in touch with hundreds of people is even desirable unless you are doing sales.

There's certainly utility and yet, it's staggering just how few people do the more rewarding and impactful (with lots of research to back it up) work of daily connection with one or two people.

I would venture to say that it's even more 'socially acceptable' to put effort into cultivating weak ties that stay weak than to do the work to transform non-romantic relationships into close friendships.

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