Live data from Hacker News

My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

yifanxing.medium.com

411–420 of 779 posts

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#411
post #198

This may be a tone-deaf sidetrack but also perhaps an important piece of advice for some. There should be an impenetrable barrier between ones love life and ones professional life. While there are certainly people who have met their significant other in a professional setting, there are much better ways of doing that, especially nowadays. By striving to keep this separation water tight we can avoid both unwanted adva…

or maybe just don't rape people idk

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#412
post #280

There is a lot about the sexual events in this post that, to me, highlights something I feel is important which is: we parents need to get better had having conversations with our children around sex. This girl was feeling uncomfortable and crying but at the same time "didn't think those behaviors were problematic". I can't help but wonder if her parents never sat her down and discussed situations like this and, I ge…

I also think we can build better communities by ensuring people are in safe situations, especially when traveling or when they are in an unfamiliar environment. This is especially true of young adults who have yet to experience predators.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#413
post #280

There is a lot about the sexual events in this post that, to me, highlights something I feel is important which is: we parents need to get better had having conversations with our children around sex. This girl was feeling uncomfortable and crying but at the same time "didn't think those behaviors were problematic". I can't help but wonder if her parents never sat her down and discussed situations like this and, I ge…

we parents need to get better had having conversations with our children around sex.

I'm a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. I thought long and hard about this and decided that talking to my children about the existence of sexual predators would rob them of their innocence.

I've studied how this works. Sexual predation almost never starts with rape. It starts with myriad instances of boundary violation and disrespect and culminates in rape.

Rape hinges on the detail of consent. As a society trying to combat this issue, we seem to overlook that for the most part.

I taught my children that hugs and kisses required consent. I taught that from birth. Even a baby too young to talk can turn their face away because they don't want a kiss or hold their arms up enthusiastically to receive affection.

When they were older, I told them if they told someone "no" and their decision was not respected, come get me.

I only had one of them come get me once. The person who felt entitled to get "sugar" from my child was utterly shocked that I told them they were wrong.

This was an elderly female relative. My children are both boys.

Most likely, she wasn't actually a child molester, but this practice of adults demanding hugs and kisses from children who have no right to say "no" is commonplace and gets treated as something funny in movies. I treated it as no laughing matter.

If you want children to understand consent and respect, the best thing to do is let them experience it firsthand from birth. And make sure they know that rule is a two-way street, not a one-sided privilege.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#414
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not what she says there. She says she felt uncomfortable and taken advantage of.

Being taken advantage of while intoxicated and while there was a significant power imbalance between the two. She was not in a position to give consent there -- being intoxicated, being in a place that was being rented Pretty (and she could risk being out on the street if she refused), having no money and luggage on hand, being the mentee of Pretty (or believing she could be), etc. She ended up crying and panicking.…

It definitely sounds like he abused his position and did a horrible thing, but the thing he did is not rape (assuming OP story is 100% accurate description of events).

If 2 people are intoxicated and have sex, do they both rape each other? If one person holds more power than the other, while both are intoxicated, is it just a one-way rape? Or is it still a two-way rape, where one person just "rapes a bit more" and the other person "rapes a bit less"? What if the person who had power ends up regretting sex afterwards and cries, does it "turn the tables" and cause the rapist to suddenly become the victim of rape, after the fact?

Yes, she was drunk. Yes, she later regretted having sex. These things alone do not mean that rape was committed. As far as I can tell, she is not referring to the events as "rape", so maybe you shouldn't either.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#415
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now you see why most women who are sexually assaulted don't report it. https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system

Can you explain the reasoning a bit more? JPKab 's argument is that the estimated costs were $100k+. In my uneducated eyes, the estimated cost of reporting a crime is 30 minutes trip to the police station and filling some report / talking to someone, maybe 2 hours of your time? Essentially trivial.

Ok, my sister was raped by her boss, was found in her appartment three days later my father, who immediately called a lawyer (female, specialized in criminal law). She told my sister that since they were only two in the kitchen with no surveillance camera, she couldn't sue but only report (its called "main courante" in my country) and "hope" that another girl is raped before 2039 and report it. The policeman concurred, nothing to be done.

I still shout "rapist owned" each time i pass his business, as do my brother and my father, my sister privately shared her story with his daughter on facebook last year (his daughter is one year younger than my sister, the creep), basically destroying their relationship, and the cooking school my sister went to directly called all female student and ex-student to tell them to avoid his restaurant. I also scraped social networks (only public data, nothing illegal) for his activities two years ago but only found business contacts. Each of them still received a nice email though.

I will move back next month, so i will continue my shouting campaign harder after the pandemic end and hope his business can't survive covid. Since his restaurant will be between my place and the place i keep my boat, i'm pretty sure i can be successful.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#416
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some people will pause before judging definite rape for described situation where girl accepts invitation to sleep in the same airbnb, without anybody else, with single guy, bringing bottle of wine, None of those things even remotely imply consent for a sexual advance. Those are all things that should be fine for anyone of any gender to do together without there being fear of a sexual assault. Anyone who looks at t…

I think you cut the list a bit. As an thought experiment try to think that your husband/wife does those things with somebody (accepts invitation to sleep in the same airbnb, without anybody else, with single opposite sex, bringing bottle of wine) - would you be worried? And if yes, why? Is it not even remotely possible that somebody would feel weird about their partner doing it?

One thing you’re missing here is that sexual consent is an ‘in the moment’ thing. Someone might be coming over to your place fully intending to have sex with you and then change their mind. You have to respect that.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine a letter like this targeted at you one day, except unlike Mr. Pretty, you are innocent. “Imagine that you were convicted of murder but, unlike John Wayne Gacy, you were innocent.” Seriously what is the point of comments like this? False convictions are real and very very bad, but I know very few social justice advocates who are opposed to locking up serial killers. Likewise, the existence of unscrupulous pe…

> Therefore the court of public opinion is the only court that has solid jurisdiction, so to speak. based on what his public info shows about his location this medium post (and the ensuing public outrage) cops in that country will have to press charges (in case they haven't been pressed already). There is a high chance he is a flight risk so they will book him, _unless_: - he is actually a passport holder of that cou…

I think there are a few problems with this:

Another commenter mentions somewhere here that the specific thing that happened may not have been illegal in Germany then (but is now). I don't know how to verify that as I don't speak German.

This happened several years ago; there is no physical evidence that remains. This, as you allude to, is a he-said-she-said situation. I assume there are emails/texts/etc. that might speak to Pretty's poor character and ill intent, but that's not much. In the US this would almost certainly not be enough for a conviction. Maybe it would be in Germany or the UK, but I suspect not.

Agree that she may have opened herself up to legal liability (at least an accusation of libel or defamation). As I recall, in the UK it is harder than in the US to defend oneself in court against accusations of libel.

It is possible, though, that Pretty might be dissuaded from bringing any legal action because doing so will only draw more attention to his bad behavior, and could result in a worse situation for him than just going and hiding under a rock for a few years.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She says that she remembers panicking and crying. I agree that those are both clear signs of non-consensual sex. Why does it take months and therapy for her to decode those clear signals? If Jon noticed her crying and panicking we would expect him to interpret that as a clear "I do not consent" signal. The power Pretty holds here is pretty minor. He's helping her get into conferences and mentoring her. He "controlled…

> Why does it take months and therapy for her to decode those clear signals? Because brains aren't just bundles of logical interpreters that fully understand what they are experiencing all the time. There are many, many reasons why we may rationalize some behavior in the moment. Why do victims of cons sometimes defend the con artists for significant periods of time after they leave? Why do humans hold out hope for lo…

I think the paragraph that you identify as a strawman is actually the core of our disagreement. I don't intend it as a strawman of your idea but as an illustration of why I struggle to accept the idea that you can retroactively change whether or not you consented - or, phrased in a way you might be more likely to agree with, whether or not you can reevaluate your consent decisions after the fact.

If she doesn't know whether she genuinely consents to sex or not, then how is it morally acceptable to have sex with her? You might be raping her. If she can reevaluate consent decisions in the future, that implies they are not certain in the present. It seems straightforward to say that if you are uncertain about whether someone consents to sex you shouldn't have sex with them.

If this is a strawman I genuinely don't see it. I think it is the logical consequence of accepting mutable consent and it is part of why I don't accept that - or at least why I hesitate to accept mutable consent.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#419
post #280

There is a lot about the sexual events in this post that, to me, highlights something I feel is important which is: we parents need to get better had having conversations with our children around sex. This girl was feeling uncomfortable and crying but at the same time "didn't think those behaviors were problematic". I can't help but wonder if her parents never sat her down and discussed situations like this and, I ge…

+1 but especially our boys. Girls and women already learn so much about how to avoid being harmed by men. It’s time for our boys to learn how to become kind men - and for those of us who are men to model that for them.

Doesn't this remove agency from women?

If two adults get together, fly together, get a room together, drink wine together, have relations... Then we're supposed to say that consent can't be given because the woman is drunk. But they're both drunk. Isn't it essentially the patriarchy to say that a woman can't make that choice? Like if they're equals and they're both drunk, why do we blame the men?

Because they aren't really equals? Isn't that what we're fighting against? We blame the men for not ignoring the wishes of the woman while drunk. It's a little bit chauvinistic to think the men know better isn't it?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#420
post #280

There is a lot about the sexual events in this post that, to me, highlights something I feel is important which is: we parents need to get better had having conversations with our children around sex. This girl was feeling uncomfortable and crying but at the same time "didn't think those behaviors were problematic". I can't help but wonder if her parents never sat her down and discussed situations like this and, I ge…

+1 but especially our boys. Girls and women already learn so much about how to avoid being harmed by men. It’s time for our boys to learn how to become kind men - and for those of us who are men to model that for them.

Boys should be educated, but this will still happen.

I cannot believe this guy doesn't know that what he's doing is wrong.

We should identify and mitigate high potential threats by public warning, ostracism or legal action. Overcorrect if necessary.

Post reply on HN