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Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

economist.com

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Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#411

Post by CuriouslyC »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #148
codingdave wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Supporting a large, rural population is less efficient than urbs or even suburbs. Whenever I see statement like this, it makes me wonder if you know where your food comes from. Because for the most part, the rural populations are supporting the cities. If the supply chains in this country were to fail, it is not the rural communities who would be scrounging for food and water. We'd be just fine.

The definition of rural is not agriculture, it's non-urban, with urban being defined by population size (and linked strongly to density). To avoid arguing semantics, supporting a large population in low-density is less efficient than in high-density. Yet while there is climate change we're seeing urban sprawl of low-density communities continue. Meanwhile, they're pushing out the original farmers due to price increas…

This seems like a statement about one thing (the unsustainability of cities like los angeles compared with cities like new york) being used to try and support increasing densification everywhere. Agriculture-integrated communities that close a lot of input loops will unquestionably be more efficient than cities that leave them open.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#412

Post by isaacimagine »

arethuza wrote: post #85
isaacimagine wrote: post #15

As someone who lived in a small city in the American Mountain West, the boom does have consequences. Sleepy farming towns are becoming endless suburbia, hiking up prices as developers spill over from the Lehi 'Silicon Slopes' area. Midway, for instance, a town on the Wasatch back situated in a location that feels similar to Switzerland, has gone from about 150 diaries to 2, as expanding housing developments buy out t…

Looks like a autocorrect problem there - "diaries" for "dairies" - took me a while to work this out and was busy researching what a diary was in this kind of context... :-)

Typed out on a phone, can't go back and edit it now ;P

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#413

Post by nitrogen »

bedhead wrote: post #223
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

Last year I moved from a top 3 city to a small mountain town in Colorado. In my experience, your hostility is extremely common in small towns that have big seasonal influxes. I continue to be amazed by the overt disdain long-time locals have for second home owners and relatively newer full-time residents. The one constant is: "Everything was great until shortly after I relocated here and you people moved in." A week…

It's a recurring theme. People spend decades taming and beautifying a place. Then people with no respect or appreciation come and love all the "nature" and turn the place into exactly what they were trying to leave behind.

It's incredibly narcissistic and selfish to believe that "the locals" are only there as a hindrance to you. Would you roll up to a random village in Thailand and just start changing things, and expect the people who live there to worship and serve you?

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#414

Post by thomaslangston »

grecy wrote: post #364
bedhead wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last year I moved from a top 3 city to a small mountain town in Colorado. In my experience, your hostility is extremely common in small towns that have big seasonal influxes. I continue to be amazed by the overt disdain long-time locals have for second home owners and relatively newer full-time residents. The one constant is: "Everything was great until shortly after I relocated here and you people moved in." A week…

> I continue to be amazed by the overt disdain long-time locals have for second home owners Housing can not be both affordable and a good investment. Given second homes are an investment, by definition having one means you're helping make homes unaffordable.

I always saw second homes as a recreational expense first. Your first rental property would be an investment.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#415

Post by lizknope »

qshaman wrote: post #385
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

Lived in South Florida for a while, this is exactly how it is. Also those "small mountain towns" are deeply conservative and intolerant, if you are white you are in luck, but I don't think they are thrilled to see an influx of non-white folks coming to their town, same with LGBTQ+ people. Those places fit a certain type of people but definitely not everybody that have the money to move there.

I couldn't agree more.

I was born in the US to Asian Indian parents. We lived in a small town in the southern US and dealt with a lot of racist crap. I went to college in a big city and while racism still exists the majority do not have racist views and are more accepting of people that do not look like them.

I've travelled to 47 states and I am most scared when I am in a small town in the mountain west. Burns, Oregon. Moscow, Idaho. Everyone was staring at me in the grocery store. I got some intimidating comments like "Are you new in town?" "No, just passing through." "Good."

Not welcoming in the slightest.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#416

Post by CuriouslyC »

vkou wrote: post #96
codingdave wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Supporting a large, rural population is less efficient than urbs or even suburbs. Whenever I see statement like this, it makes me wonder if you know where your food comes from. Because for the most part, the rural populations are supporting the cities. If the supply chains in this country were to fail, it is not the rural communities who would be scrounging for food and water. We'd be just fine.

> Whenever I see statement like this, it makes me wonder if you know where your food comes from. Mostly from machines and chemical inputs made by people who live in cities, used by people who can barely make ends meet in rural areas.

Being sold on the idea of using machines and chemical inputs for everything is the reason most farmers can't make ends meet. There are other paradigms of agriculture that are much more efficient; unfortunately farmers are bending over backwards to feed the folks in the city who want very specific things, and don't care about the consequences.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#417

Post by thorwasdfasdf »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #120
eysquared wrote: post #24

There seems to be a lot of negativity in the comments so far. Is this not the dream that is often touted on hacker news? Work at a FAANG and "retire" somewhere more affordable? I'm personally doing just this. I was lucky enough to land a good job out of college, buy a house in a desired area, and see it appreciate in the last 10 years. This increase plus the birth of my kids left me wondering if there wasn't a better…

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

so, why can't they simply build more housing in those areas? And the locals who already bought houses/land aren't getting screwed. they're beneficiaries of all that appreciation. just think of the couple who bought a house for 150K in boise, ID and it's now worth 500k+.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#418

Post by reducesuffering »

rendang wrote: post #395
simonsarris wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We must increase the density of our cities. We could also try to make a few new cities, instead of ten thousand new suburbs

The West Coast could use a new metropolis somewhere near SW Oregon, to fill in the gap between the Bay and Portland.

There's a reason one doesn't exist and that is because of terrain. It's thick mountain passes there from Redding to Eugene. It's much more geographically feasible to expand Sacramento or Eugene north.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#419

Post by kortilla »

ubermonkey wrote: post #189
airhead969 wrote: post #179

I went through many of them moving from Chico CA area in a grand US west/southwest roadtrip moving to Austin TX to escape climate change fires/power outages (ironically), increasing taxes and housing prices, and a decline in general happiness. I didn't see any obvious signs of this. I can recommend not moving anywhere near Greely CO where cattle are slaughtered by the thousands. It smells very bad. Also, driving in W…

"Big cities are (and were pre-pandemic) only useful for conducting high-level economic activity due to the density of connectedness and potential for rapid wealth accumulation, but in general, they often tend to be terrible places overall" yeah, seriously "citation needed" here. Cities offer a LOT of things not usually found in rural areas. Try explaining to my trans sister about how cities are bad, and that she shou…

> Try explaining to my trans sister about how cities are bad, and that she should live in a rural area, for example.

Unless your trans sister has special medical needs only available in big cities, there is nothing special here. There are plenty of liberal small communities and there would be even more as people leave cities.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#420

Post by nitrogen »

giantg2 wrote: post #353
mring33621 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm OK with "ideas of socialism," I think. Especially regarding UBI and universal medical care. But, I also think that it's better to be in a growing area than a static or declining area. I'll never understand anti-gentrifiers. As an adult human being, it is your responsiblility to adapt and decide what is best for yourself and your dependents. No one owes you an unchanging landscape.

"I'll never understand anti-gentrifiers." I think the main point is being forced out of your life-long home due to increased costs or taxes. Or the destruction of the local cultures/customs through change in local government policies. If you want an extreme example, you can look at the way that cult in Oregon took over a county/town in the 80s or 90s. Nothing legally wrong with it (the population segment with the hig…

The key is assimilation. If you move into a place with the goal of becoming one of the community and understanding and blending into the local culture and economy, people will be a lot more accepting. If you expect everyone to get out of your way, expect them to fight back.
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