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Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

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Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locals wouldn't get screwed if they advocated for better zoning policy and allowed more housing to be built. This doesn't happen because those same locals that are homeowners love the value of their house exploding upwards

This is a more complex problem than it is in many other regions of the country. For the most obvious - Once you're off a municipal water supply (which of course, has to have an adequate source of water in the region), available water resources/aquifers are often very limited and minimum lot sizes have to be large because the land can't support higher density housing. -------- If you build anything even approaching "n…

The Western US population / urban centre geographical distribution far more resembles an archipeligo than a continental population distribution. Part of this is due to transportation and historical settlement and development. Much though is due to water, or its lack.

This becomes especially clear when you realise that Los Angeles's watershed extends 1,500 miles eastward (about 2,400 km), to the Colorado River and the eastern front of the Rocky Mountains. Los Angeles has (under western-US water law) senior rights to water, over those of users far upstream of it.

Water supplies, and the rights to them, are based in large part on the economic (and hence legal and legislative/political power) of metropolitan areas. Since a large city with large rights effectively sucks dry land from 100s or 1,000s of miles away, population concentrates into a few centres, rather than being distributed across the land.

This contrast shows up most especially in the "Earthlights" images of the US mainland at night, where east of the Mississippi river settlements are dotted evenly through the landscape, but thin rapidly as one heads further west, dissolving into a few mega-concentrations: the Colorado front, Salt Lake - Provo, Albequerque, Phoenix, Las Vegas, LA-San Dieto, the Bay Area, Portland, Seattle. A few more-populated regions exist (the Sacramento-San Joaquine valley, the Willammette valley), but these are sparse compared with the Eastern US.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/48/Earthlights_d...

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#382
post #94

With and without kids makes a huge difference. Without kids and if your an introvert- it’s a no brained. Buy you that 15 acre ranch (just for looks, we know your a programmer) If you have kids stay close to a larger city. Your kids will have more opportunity. For anyone else looking. We took a two month road trip during the worst time of year (climate wise) and took a road trip to see where liked it best. We chose No…

RTP?

RTP!

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#383

There seems to be a lot of negativity in the comments so far. Is this not the dream that is often touted on hacker news? Work at a FAANG and "retire" somewhere more affordable? I'm personally doing just this. I was lucky enough to land a good job out of college, buy a house in a desired area, and see it appreciate in the last 10 years. This increase plus the birth of my kids left me wondering if there wasn't a better…

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

Any small town has two problems:

* influx of tourism and remote owners -> rising prices

* lack of tourism or property interest -> slow death

I am not sure what would be the right public policy to balance the two extremes.

Maybe Hawaii has the right idea with tiered property taxation - the longer you reside there, the lower your property tax becomes?

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then what happens when the reason to live there is now gone? You seem to frame it as an exclusivity problem - they're trying to exclude people from affordable housing... while the people who live there look at it as preserving what makes it livable neither are right or wrong on their own, but surely build at all cost isn't a solution to mountain town charm

It will reach an equilibrium >while the people who live there look at it as preserving what makes it livable And they're free to buy up all the land and choose what they want to do with it

Or, as a democratic form of government allows, they petition for laws that protect their interests from their representatives.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#385

There seems to be a lot of negativity in the comments so far. Is this not the dream that is often touted on hacker news? Work at a FAANG and "retire" somewhere more affordable? I'm personally doing just this. I was lucky enough to land a good job out of college, buy a house in a desired area, and see it appreciate in the last 10 years. This increase plus the birth of my kids left me wondering if there wasn't a better…

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

Lived in South Florida for a while, this is exactly how it is. Also those "small mountain towns" are deeply conservative and intolerant, if you are white you are in luck, but I don't think they are thrilled to see an influx of non-white folks coming to their town, same with LGBTQ+ people. Those places fit a certain type of people but definitely not everybody that have the money to move there.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

Last year I moved from a top 3 city to a small mountain town in Colorado. In my experience, your hostility is extremely common in small towns that have big seasonal influxes. I continue to be amazed by the overt disdain long-time locals have for second home owners and relatively newer full-time residents. The one constant is: "Everything was great until shortly after I relocated here and you people moved in." A week…

Hah. About forty-five years ago in Denver, I listened to a conversation between two women, natives of Colorado. One thought that all non-natives should be given short notice to vacate or else, the other thought that was impractical. (Hey, she'd lived in Virginia for a while.)

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the pure definition of NIMBYism. You built a house there eight years ago that has increased 6x in value. Now others are trying to do the same thing and you demonize them for it. You should be complaining about state policy, not the people seeking a better life for themselves.

>You built a house there eight years ago Sorry, I should've been more clear. I grew up here as well. I've lived here for my entire life (outside of the 6 years I was at college/grad school, and even then I was back to work on the farm on the weekends). It's not NIMBY. I don't care who lives here. That's actually what I like the most about rural living - for the most part if you leave people alone, they'll leave you a…

> I don't care who lives here. That's actually what I like the most about rural living - for the most part if you leave people alone, they'll leave you alone. What I do care about is that the people I grew up with literally cannot afford their taxes anymore

Not meaning to pick on you, but this is almost exactly the rhetoric that got California into the situation it is in now.

* Taxes going up due to newcomers -> cap property taxes until sale/transfer

* Kids can't afford to inherit house -> make property tax assessment inheritable by children/grandchildren

* City can't fund more schools/sewers from limited property taxes -> put limits on new housing starts and encourage retail/commercial development

* Low property tax for life + high rents -> nobody ever sells a house, market goes up more

* Limited housing availability + need for people to fill those offices -> house prices really skyrocket

I just hope other places learn from California's mistake.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the course of 10 or 20 years, you can build out the infrastructure to support the previous boom (well, it’s harder in Montana since they are more anti-tax). But in the course of 1 or 2 years? And if that boom turns into a bust before you can get the infrastructure projects going? Urban planning is useful for a reason. Building housing is far from effective on its own, and not all areas can support the same densi…

>the result is a more livable city that attracts even more people That doesn't sound so bad. What's the alternative?

Yes, unless you are looking for low cost housing.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#389
post #182
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't get a lot of the comments on this thread. So, say I can work remote or retire and live basically anywhere I want. Is the suggestion that I have some moral obligation to live somewhere that's already expensive?

I think the sentiment is about how it can create perverse incentives that may be good for a small subset but bad for the population in the aggregate. I think it’s about a host of different systemic issues beyond just where one person decides to live. I.e., income inequality, housing policy, class disparities etc. It just manifests itself in the problems raised in the article. Edit: The Indicator recently had an inter…

I think the sentiment is clear. Their question was what would those people holding this sentiment suggest be done? That outsiders go back to where they came from? That because someone makes money they are obligated to stay in a high cost of living area?

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last year I moved from a top 3 city to a small mountain town in Colorado. In my experience, your hostility is extremely common in small towns that have big seasonal influxes. I continue to be amazed by the overt disdain long-time locals have for second home owners and relatively newer full-time residents. The one constant is: "Everything was great until shortly after I relocated here and you people moved in." A week…

That sentiment isn't unique to small towns either. Residents of Austin, TX have been complaining that the city changed or got too crowded shortly after they moved in, whether that was a year ago or decades ago. People who moved to SF in 2010 complained about the people moving there in 2015. Same thing happens at a neighborhood or district level too. Everybody feels like they were the last person to move in while it w…

It’s almost like it’s progressively getting worse as more people crowd in.
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