Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#411

Post by oji0hub » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:42 AM UTC

tmpz22 wrote: post #249

uncoder0 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You, like Parler, have been targeted by the powers that be. You may have nothing else in common other than that but, you're in the same boat it seems.

Parler curated the content on their platform for months including shadowbanning new accounts until they had been approved by volunteer moderators. Accounts on Parler called for and planned violence against elected officials for months. Executives at the company spoke often and publicly supporting that content. If your going to argue with a straight face the this new situation is the same as Parler, your putting Eleme…

> Accounts on Parler called for and planned violence against elected officials for months

When Trump was elected there were riots for weeks under banners like "not my president" and "never trump".

No one wrote anything about the capitol being under attack or people storming the capitol etc. Instead they were "activists" and "protesters" and to the extent anyone did anything really bad, they were "incited by Trump" so it was really his fault anyway.

Then for the following years, organizations like antifa and blm and countless individuals have been inciting violence on a daily basis on platforms like twitter, reddit and facebook.

These platforms are still up. More than just up, they enjoy the support of the same organizations that banned parler.

The conclusion? These people are apparently fine with inciting violence. They don't want to discuss things. They just want to make sure the people who get attacked are people they don't like.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#412

Post by oji0hub » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:44 AM UTC

Shared404 wrote: post #379

Yoric wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We tried. - The FirefoxOS team. - The Jolia team. - The UbuntuPhone team. - ...

I'm optimistic that PinePhone may finally be the one to do it, at least to an extent that it's usable if you're willing to hack on it.

> usable if you're willing to hack on it

Most people need things just work.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#413

Post by shripadk » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:44 AM UTC

afavour wrote: post #142

shripadk wrote: post #21

I got banned here for saying this but I'll continue to say it nevertheless. We are already in the Censorship Era. This is an Orwellian Nightmare. The quicker this is brought under control the better. The last thing we need is Corporate Overlords controlling what we say or do online. This includes Hacker News as well.

We live in an era of unprecedented communication. You can instant spread a message to millions of people at little or no cost. Compared to history (even relatively recent history) we are in no way in a “Censorship Era”, that’s utter hyperbole.

> we are in no way in a “Censorship Era”, that’s utter hyperbole

The irony is that you are literally replying to my account that got banned for having a contrary opinion. It isn't hyperbole. It just so happens that you are living in your own bubble where you coincidentally are in agreement with powers that be. Or you aren't vocal about your opposition to things online. Both of which don't test the limits of free speech. People feel Censorship is real when they test the limits. And those are in plenty. Maybe when you test those limits you'll understand what Censorship is all about.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#414

Post by Uhrheber » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:45 AM UTC

Any reason why the F-Droid version is behind the official one?

I mean, you should now have learned that you can't rely on one single distribution channel.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#415

Post by oji0hub » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:46 AM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #399

Don't forget that F-Droid is a thing, and Android still has at least that much freedom - to install your own software. Who would have thought 30 years ago someone would be saying "People can run any code they want on their computer" as a shocking thing.

Installing software outside of play store is technically possible, but if something contains enough hurdles, most people won't do it, which results in no users and a meaningless platform.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#416

Post by berkes » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:47 AM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #269

COGlory wrote: post #182

F-Droid Link: Element (previously Riot.im) (Secure decentralised chat & VoIP. Keep your data safe from third parties.) - https://f-droid.org/packages/im.vector.app

By the way, "Foxy Droid" does the same job as F-Droid but is much less annoying. Available on F-Droid.

Off topic, but since you brought it up: what is annoying about f-droid?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#417

Post by jimworm » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:48 AM UTC

KirillPanov wrote: post #338

js4ever wrote: post #238

It seems all those deplatforming started really recently with trump/parler and turned into a witch hunt. It's now totally out of control and we start to look like CCP

Do you think the CCP is a) happy about this or b) unhappy about this I'll give you three guesses.

They have to be happy on average. It's like being in a race where all the competitors started running in different directions, but eventually finding that the others have turned around to follow your target, effectively giving you a head start.

To spell it out more clearly, here is a great place for one's opponents/competitors to be stuck in - authoritarian enough to eliminate any advantages of liberty, but not authoritarian enough to be efficiently coordinated.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#418

Post by fendy3002 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:49 AM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #361

js4ever wrote: post #238

It seems all those deplatforming started really recently with trump/parler and turned into a witch hunt. It's now totally out of control and we start to look like CCP

But Google is a private company and can decide who they want to see in their stores. Right?

It's not that simple. Let's say that Google sell a tv half or even a quarter the price of normal tv, but it can only access channels authorized by google, and the authorized channels can change anytime. Furthermore it can only access consoles and devices only authorized by google.

At first, the authorization is very permissive and the unauthorized channels or devices are very rare. People begin to buy the tv, and channels begin to optimize their content around it. Other tv lose their market share, and begin to adapt "google tv" architecture to sell their own to survive.

After 10 years google begin to unauthorize some channels, in prefer to their own which launched 3 years before, as well as consoles in preference to stadia. The ban is same with these similar cases, where it's framed as illegal content, or error. But it's happening often.

Is google in the wrong here? IMO it's debatable.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#419

Post by Shared404 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:50 AM UTC

oji0hub wrote: post #411

tmpz22 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parler curated the content on their platform for months including shadowbanning new accounts until they had been approved by volunteer moderators. Accounts on Parler called for and planned violence against elected officials for months. Executives at the company spoke often and publicly supporting that content. If your going to argue with a straight face the this new situation is the same as Parler, your putting Eleme…

> Accounts on Parler called for and planned violence against elected officials for months When Trump was elected there were riots for weeks under banners like "not my president" and "never trump". No one wrote anything about the capitol being under attack or people storming the capitol etc. Instead they were "activists" and "protesters" and to the extent anyone did anything really bad, they were "incited by Trump" so…

> No one wrote anything about the capitol being under attack or people storming the capitol[.]

Because no one attacked or stormed the capitol during those protests.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#420

Post by nomercy400 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:51 AM UTC

posguy wrote: post #375

rstuart4133 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android has it's own SIP stack. It's even exposed in the standard Android phone dialler from Google. In the settings for that app look under "calling accounts". https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/sip I haven't looked, but I'm sure just like Firebase, services get a special exemption to receive SIP notifications.

The Android SIP stack is pretty crummy. Last I tried to use it there was no support for TLS registration (leaving your calls unencrypted, barebacking the web) or for push notifications. Linphone, Zoiper, etc can show a badge in your notifications menu/top bar at all times and get semi-reliable access to run in the background, but expect to miss 5% to 20% of all incoming calls. Firebase push notifications are mandator…

Firebase push messages are best effort an by no means guaranteed. You will still miss calls/notifications, even high priority ones.

I'm still looking for a guaranteed push service/library.