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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A worse time for developers means worse apps, worse apps means less-happy consumers. They aren't mutually exclusive.

It doesn’t follow at all that a worse time for developers means worse apps or less-happy consumers. Any time Apple enforces any kind of standard it’s “worse for developers”. I’m sure lots of developers are annoyed with Apple’s approach to fine-grained and highly visible app permissions, and wish they could just have full access to the user’s device. Screwing those people over is obviously good.

As a developer I am happy that the end-user can trust the platform, this is always better for business.

I think it should be rephrased in this way: what is good for the ecosystem is good for the end-users.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#412

Apple built their controlled ecosystem and set their rules. And now others are insisting that Apple should not have that control (even when they themselves are doing the same thing).

And furthermore, the Apple ecosystem is so popular because Apple curates the app store. I recommend their stuff to my non-techie relatives because I trust that they're not going to stumble their way into installing malware from some weird knockoff from Elbonia. With an iPhone, for better or for worse, I can point them at the App Store... app... ("say 'app' again! I dare you!") and be reasonably confident they're gett…

> There are multiple apps with "Instagram" in the name

That's not very convincing 'curation'.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#413
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because app stores are acting as platforms as well as used to restrict third parties and improve first party products. Does Fortnite even have a platform for developing cosmetics and selling them? If not, then this argument misses the mark. Consoles do provide salient examples though.

Why isn't Epic forced to make it a platform? They have a large captive audience with money and I want a cut of it. Opening it up to everyone will drive competition to the digital skin market, and as we all know from this thread, that's a good thing. Why does Epic get to monopolize their game's monetization?

Don't argue in bad faith.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#414
post #277
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it should be something like, "if your platform doesn't allow side loading of other apps, or other app stores, then the store on that platform can take no more than X% commission on sales"

Does Steam allow side loading into it's launcher/library?

Yes, yes it does.

There is a menu item labeled 'Add A Non-Steam Game To My Library', after adding you can also use steam's compatibility tools (Proton, or DOSBox or whatever custom compatibility tools) with the games as well.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#415
post #65

Apple built their controlled ecosystem and set their rules. And now others are insisting that Apple should not have that control (even when they themselves are doing the same thing).

iOS has around 70% share of mobile app revenue and most of the premium customers. If you're building a business, media or communication tool you can't compete without an iOS app.

Apple's "walled garden" approach is exactly the reason why they have gathered 70% share of mobile app revenue. One of the reasons is that people feel generally more safe on iOS because there's almost no malware there. The other is that Android being more "open" actually hurts the developers because there's rampant piracy on Google's OS [1]. On iOS piracy is almost non-existing (unless one jailbreaks their phone which nowadays pretty much no one does [2]).

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2016/02/03/android-p...

[2] https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-iPhones-have-been-j...

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A worse time for developers means worse apps, worse apps means less-happy consumers. They aren't mutually exclusive.

It doesn’t follow at all that a worse time for developers means worse apps or less-happy consumers. Any time Apple enforces any kind of standard it’s “worse for developers”. I’m sure lots of developers are annoyed with Apple’s approach to fine-grained and highly visible app permissions, and wish they could just have full access to the user’s device. Screwing those people over is obviously good.

> It doesn’t follow at all that a worse time for developers means worse apps or less-happy consumers

Sure, it's not guaranteed to be a net positive for consumers but it's correlated.

Admittedly not exactly the same, but the Sega Saturn had trouble attracting developers because it was really difficult to develop on, despite the hardware being pretty good. As a result, people who bought a Saturn ended up getting fewer and worse versions of games.

I agree that they shouldn't necessarily always always do everything to appeal to developers, there's a balance, and I'm not suggesting that we get rid of community guidelines and the like, I'm just saying that the more difficult it is for a developer (or anyone) to do something, the less likely they are to do a good job at it, if they do it at at all. Worse apps means a worse experience.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#418
Totally off-topic but worth mentioning. If you click on the "Cookie Policy" link in the footer, it takes you to the right page, but on that page it's still asking for consent before I can actually read the policy. So many websites gets something so simple wrong, even Epic, Spotify and Tinder. Where are we going really?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#419
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it means Sony has to add Steam to PS5 or else it is narrow and arbitrary. To me the iPhone is a console, end of story. If you like the console experience, it’s a great device. If you don’t, there are a million android and even alternative OS based phones out there which are more like a PC. If you want your phone to be a PC, you should do what most people around the world do and buy one of those. Instead we have…

How does letting me have a PC experience hurt your console experience? What gives you the right to force Epic into a console experience for everyone?

Because it can’t be both ways. If tomorrow Facebook decides to only offer its app only through Epic App Store, consumers now have reckon with a privacy compromised app. And Apple now has to spend tons more resources playing a failing game of whack a mole closing all sorts of security and privacy holes that could have been avoided if the misbehaving apps weren’t allowed in the first place. Lots of people buy an iPhone for the walled garden, peace of mind experience.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#420
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be hard pressed to find a company that is popular and doesnt have accusations, haters, and lawsuits for something or other. It's part of running a complex large business.

Anything you disagree with here? https://appfairness.org/our-vision/

> No developer should be required to use an app store exclusively, or to use ancillary services of the app store owner, including payment systems, or to accept other supplementary obligations in order to have access to the app store.

Apple doesn’t have a monopoly here they don’t even have 50% marketshare. Nobody forces developers to develop apps for Apple devices, that’s a choice that was made. Why should Apples rights over its own IP get trumped by others?

I find it hard to see as a win for consumers based on the scummy practices of the companies in this advocacy group. Comparatively consumers are much better with Apples requirements from my perspective.

So given that there is potential for significant harm AND developers have a choice of platforms to develop for why should Apples rights be taken away?

> No developer should be blocked from the platform or discriminated against based on a developer’s business model, how it delivers content and services, or whether it competes in any way with the app store owner.

So if I sell an app that does something like only sells to white people Apple shouldn’t be allowed to step in even though the negative press is likely to harm their brand image?

> Every developer should have timely access to the same interoperability interfaces and technical information as the app store owner makes available to its own developers.

Apple should be forced to work on behalf of other companies with no benefit for them?

> Every developer should always have access to app stores as long as its app meets fair, objective and nondiscriminatory standards for security, privacy, quality, content, and digital safety.

Is this not true today? If it’s not Apple setting those standards it’s surely some other biased entity right? How is one better than the other?

> A developer’s data should not be used to compete with the developer.

This seems fair.

> Every developer should always have the right to communicate directly with its users through its app for legitimate business purposes.

Why does communicate mean in this instance? I can see how the definition of communicate could be exploited to allow apps to override permission defaults set by Apple. For example perhaps you get an add and the app owner things it’s valid to start the microphone so the communication channel can be opened? Perhaps I want to communicate based on location? Should I be allowed to access GPS information without permissions?

> No app store owner or its platform should engage in self-preferencing its own apps or services, or interfere with users’ choice of preferences or defaults.

Why? It’s their platform. Developers are free to develop their own phone / OS, right?

> No developer should be required to pay unfair, unreasonable or discriminatory fees or revenue shares, nor be required to sell within its app anything it doesn’t wish to sell, as a condition to gain access to the app store.

Apple would surely say developers do not pay an unfair or unreasonable amount. Who sets this standard?

> No app store owner should prohibit third parties from offering competing app stores on the app store owner’s platform, or discourage developers or consumers from using them.

Why? If your App Store bricks an iPhone, Apple shouldn’t be able to prevent that from being installed on their devices?

> All app stores will be transparent about their rules and policies and opportunities for promotion and marketing, apply these consistently and objectively, provide notice of changes, and make available a quick, simple and fair process to resolve disputes.

Transparent is subjective. I don’t see how this won’t result in the same types of TOS that people without legal degrees are not equipped to parse/understand.

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