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Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

bbc.com

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Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#411

Post by watwut »

growlist wrote: post #387
enumjorge wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The erosion of wages has many causes, not just women having more equal opportunity in the workforce. I’d argue wages have been much more affected by the accumulation of wealth into the top of the food chain. And that aside, what’s the alternative? Relegate women to work only as teachers and secretaries because some of them want to be stay at home moms?

> And that aside, what’s the alternative? Relegate women to work only as teachers and secretaries because some of them want to be stay at home moms? I was just pointing out that along with the women who cannot wait to get back to work there are also plenty that are perfectly happy to give up work forever - for some having a child and especially the early years are the most meaningful thing that happens in their entir…

That would suggest that men are working like dogs all the time, should not we try to improve their lives too?

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#412

Post by swozey »

ryanmercer wrote: post #335
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not about individuals making good or bad decisions, but about building a good, equal society. And importantly this means caring for children as a collective society.

Both of my parents worked full time and my mother went back to work very shortly after having me. I was plenty cared for without my parents sitting at home with me for weeks or months. Pretty much all of my friends with kids the women went back to work within a few weeks and the men didn't take time off. I can't see how sitting at home with a child that will have no memories of you sitting at home with them, that wil…

It's great that all of those parents raised perfectly healthy children and weren't dealing with the NICU, post-partum depression/issues and everything else that can happen.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#413

Post by jjeaff »

jimmaswell wrote: post #273
socialdemocrat wrote: post #22

Good job Finland! Fellow Nordic here (Norwegian) and a dad. The father quota here in Norway made a huge social change. It really helped make it socially acceptable for dads to spend more time with their children. I noticed for my two sons how much of a difference it makes being around your kids when they are young. You cannot cannot substitute short time with "quality time." The amount of time you are there matters a…

> I think it is healthy for children to have both a mother and father who is actively present in their lives. Not sure how literally this was meant (and a lot of the rest of the thread assuming a mother/father) but studies show kids do just as well with two parents of any gender.

Not sure how literal your statement was meant, but some parents are non-gendered, non-binary.

We shouldn't exclude them either.

Every mention needs to include a long list of every possible combination, no matter how rare and edge case. /s

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#414

Post by chriselles »

New Zealand is currently at 22, but moving to 26 weeks paid parental leave for babies born from July 1, 2020.

The paid parental leave is up to the parents to decide the split between them.

I think it is a great idea for fathers to be encouraged more to take a share of the paid parental leave.

This could go some small way in helping remedy income disparity between genders.

I was deployed and/or travelling a lot when our boys were young.

Another poster questioned the value of time with infants as opposed to when they are older.

I do think bonding with infants and toddlers is super important for both parent and child.

But it can also feel like a robotic and laborious grind.

As my boys enter high school, I most enjoy our ritualised time together during daily school drop offs and pick ups.

Engaging with them, guiding them on their own journey, and observing how far they have come.

I have few regrets, but one of them is not spending more time wth my kids when they were younger, which probably feeds the extra effort in recent years to spend more time with them as they grow into young men.

You can’t get time back. Make the most of every minute.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#415

Post by fzeroracer »

nec4b wrote: post #399
hising wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem in contemporary culture is that we are not even allowed to have this conversation So what type of conversation are you having right now? We have word in swedish for using that type of "arguing", it is "offerkofta". I dont think it is a good word for it in english, but starting a discussion in an open forum saying something and then stating you are not "ALLOWED" to discuss what you are discussing is just…

Had you bothered to read this little sub thread, you would have noticed that the original post was down voted into oblivion. Is that what you call a conversation in Sweden?

The original post was downvoted into oblivion in part because it explicitly broke HN rules and argued that people whom disagreed with him were autistic.

That's not a conversation. That's being deliberately inflammatory.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#416

Post by gvjddbnvdrbv »

petercooper wrote: post #240

I'm a dad (of three) and I am not convinced that time spent at the very start of their lives is as significant as that later in their lives (note the "as", I am not saying it has no value!) when you can really nurture their passions, knowledge, etc. I did spend a lot of time with my children in their earliest days because it was the right thing to do, but I don't feel either they or I particularly gained from it (tha…

The experience of paternity leave is quite intense. It's not all fun. E.g. long nights when baby is sick or teething and the baby's mum has to go to work the next day so she has to sleep and the long night goes straight into a difficult day.

As someone that thought I spent a lot of time with my baby before starting pappperm it was an awakening - but also a wonderful bonding experience.

Yes time as a baby is important. Dad's shouldn't have to wait until their kids grow up before they get to know them.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#417

Post by mrbonner »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #57
mrbonner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My in-laws were with us for 6 months after our little girl was born. My wife and I took over almost everything childcare related to be with her except for things like cooking meals and catch up naps during the day sometimes. Some parents do want to spend time with their children you know!

Some people have no support such that you describe, and are entirely out of pocket for childcare costs because they have no family to rely on (either due to apathy, or death). If your spouse is a stay at home parent, none of these costs are tax deductible (US centric).

I am aware of that. My wife was working part time and had to take vacation days to stay home. I was working full time for FAANG and had to take vacation days for paternity leave, too. I stayed home for 3 weeks, the most I could take. There was no such thing as paternity/maternity leaves prior to 2016 I believe even for big tech companies. I remembered Microsoft was one of the 1st to offer such thing in 2017.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#418

Post by chriselles »

petercooper wrote: post #240

I'm a dad (of three) and I am not convinced that time spent at the very start of their lives is as significant as that later in their lives (note the "as", I am not saying it has no value!) when you can really nurture their passions, knowledge, etc. I did spend a lot of time with my children in their earliest days because it was the right thing to do, but I don't feel either they or I particularly gained from it (tha…

I would largely agree.

In a dark humoured way, and beyond the essential need to create an unbreakable bond beyond infant & parent, you can be replaced and better optimised by an iterated Roomba. :)

But with each passing day/year the desire/need to spend time with your kids should grow.

Our kids are teenagers now>

And I agree that it feels like an hour spent with them today provide all of us more value than an hour spent with them as infants/toddlers.

Both are important, but I think I’m less replaceable today than yesterday.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#419

Post by RonanTheGrey »

daenz wrote: post #382
nailer wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Child bearing is only an initial factor; after the baby is out it goes away. Men do not produce milk.

Transphobic. Edit>> FtM men produce milk for the downvoters.

This isn't reddit or Twitter, friend.
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