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The Real Class War

americanaffairsjournal.org

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Re: The Real Class War

#411

Post by alasdair_ »

war1025 wrote: post #344
viburnum wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gay people can get married in America, which was completely unthinkable a generation ago. 100% due to activists, many who risked their lives to make it happen.

Gay people are distributed throughout the various ranks of American society. No one really gives a care at a broad level about the rights of a poor gay person. What actually brought about the change was that due entirely to the fact that people in power had relatives that were gay, or were gay themselves. And these people turned the wheels of society toward making it accepted.

>What actually brought about the change was that due entirely to the fact that people in power had relatives that were gay, or were gay themselves.

The people in power had gay relatives or were gay themselves a century ago and yet nothing changed without activism.

Re: The Real Class War

#412

Post by Daishiman »

arkh wrote: post #98

> Indeed the conspicuous embrace of “elite values” by journalists and academics is often little more than an aspi­rational attempt to remain connected to an economically distant elite—just as educated millennials’ conspicuous consumption of “ex­periences” often serves as a necessary distraction from the grim reality that most will never be able to own a home. > An entire “creative class” ideology was constructed to e…

It's refreshing really.

Re: The Real Class War

#413

Post by vanusa »

buboard wrote: post #368
viburnum wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gay people can get married in America, which was completely unthinkable a generation ago. 100% due to activists, many who risked their lives to make it happen.

The gilettes jaunes are on the streets, nobody cares to make them cultural icons. Gays had very visible and generally disproportionate (compared to population) media coverage of their rights. Was it really 100% due to activists on the street, or very influential but high profile gay people who helped build one of the few successful rights movements of our times?

Was it really 100% due to activists on the street, or [high-profile insiders]

Okay, 90 percent activists on the street, 10 percent insiders (who generally only stepped in after the 90 percent had already laid their bodies on the tracks, and accomplished the hard part).

Re: The Real Class War

#414

Post by claudiawerner »

ernst_klim wrote: post #361
claudiawerner wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of "exploitation" is a technical one; even those who argue against the Marxist claim actually take this in stride, for instance, there is an objection to the Marxist idea of exploitation that Marx's selection of labour-power as the exploited commodity is arbitrary, thus we can say that any commodity (such as steel, peanuts or shoes) is "exploited" - the Marxist reply to this isn't to say "well, exploit…

>that there is some amount of labour that is unpaid What is unpaid labor? If I employ a carpenter, and pay him $10 for a chair I later sell for $15, is this labor paid?

The question is incomplete without knowing how the $15 and the $10 breaks down - if you paid, say $3 for the materials (C) and $10 for the labour (V), you'd sell at a $2 profit, Marx would say that assuming equivalent exchange of values on the market, neglecting the role of advertising and such, and assuming the chair is freely reproducible (i.e unencumbered by patents and trademarks, and not a one-of-a-kind item like a piece of artwork), the $2 is the monetary value of the surplus labour (S), also known as "unpaid" labour. This provides a rate of profit (or "rate of exploitation") r = S/(C+V) = 2/(3+10) = 0.153, the final product of course having a value of S+V+C, expressed, i.e 2+10+3 = $15.

Re: The Real Class War

#415

Post by buboard »

vanusa wrote: post #413
buboard wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gilettes jaunes are on the streets, nobody cares to make them cultural icons. Gays had very visible and generally disproportionate (compared to population) media coverage of their rights. Was it really 100% due to activists on the street, or very influential but high profile gay people who helped build one of the few successful rights movements of our times?

Was it really 100% due to activists on the street, or [high-profile insiders] Okay, 90 percent activists on the street, 10 percent insiders (who generally only stepped in after the 90 percent had already laid their bodies on the tracks, and accomplished the hard part).

Was it really 90%?

Reason i m asking is thay certain countries had 0% activism and it all changed thanks to culture and osmosis. The fact that audiences were prepared for the changes was huge

Re: The Real Class War

#416

Post by saalweachter »

anigbrowl wrote: post #255
frockington1 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning how to follow rules is exatly how to become rich. Entry level retail store now pays 15/hr. 60 hours at week equates to 48k/year. Hardly unfair

Either you're trolling or extremely naive. $48k/year ain't shit when a) you'll pay some of that back in taxes and b) in places where you can get $15/hour for retail you also need to shell out $30k/year just to have a small studio apartment.

I would also add:

1. 60 hours per week at $15/hr for 52.1429 weeks per year is $47k/year.

2. In this magical world where you can get 60 hours per week on the clock, you'd also be entitled to time and a half for 20 hours per week, which would actually be $55k/year. You're underselling it here!

3. And if you're talking about two+ 30 hour / week minimum wage jobs:

3a. Chances are you're now in the world where you also don't get employer healthcare. Hooray!

3b. Good luck getting all of your jobs to schedule in such a way that you actually get all 60 hours per week, without getting fired from your second job because of scheduling conflicts with your first.

Re: The Real Class War

#417

Post by isthispermanent »

helen___keller wrote: post #152

A cogent and well-written article. My only possible contributions are the following: 1. The author perhaps underestimates the bottom 90%, who are written off as politically irrelevant (in terms of real power) near the start of the article. I do think there's a good reason for this, but we are only one true crisis away from that changing. For example, suppose India and Pakistan only were to have a nuclear engagement a…

> But I think some underestimate how soon the developers and programmers of the world will crater from "elite 10%/5%/1%" to something resembling median salary.

I generally agree with this. I think for the traditional programmer building apps and apis this begins to happen in 5-10 years. We'll essentially become mechanics. However, there is always the next front of technology that you can surf.

For millennia those on the forefront of technological progress have done well relative to the rest of people. This was due to having skills that were relatively rare, access to equipment that was uncommon or both. Blacksmiths, photographers, car mechanics, stock traders, etc. Programming in certain verticals will be added to that list.

But imo there is good news. Being able to create or deploy new technology in ways that creates or protects wealth will always be in demand. And the thing about programming is you are first-and-foremost a problem-solver. Couple that with technical math-based skills and you can bring immense value to most organizations.

If you are a "programmer"--I really don't like that term, but whatever. My advice would be to be trained in multiple disciplines across multiple verticals. Know how to look at a business or social problem and deduce it to its fundamental inputs/outputs so that you can then construct a solution that turns those inputs/outputs into the desired result.

Hand-wavy, but that really is the key to being valuable. Solve real problems.

Re: The Real Class War

#418

Post by rout39574 »

vanusa wrote: post #409
tvanantwerp wrote: post #159

I've spent my career working in public policy circles, and this rings true to me. > At most, working-class voters can cast their ballots for an “un­acceptable” candidate, but they can exercise no influence on policy formation or agency personnel, much less on governance areas that have been transferred to technocratic bodies. > Unlike the work­ing class, the professional managerial class is still capable of, and re­q…

I've never seen actual grassroots activism accomplish much, if anything.... It's always insiders who make a career out of policy that ultimately shape it. Did the Vietnam War end because the Washington insiders (who were, if you'll recall, the ones who started it) had a change of heart, got together one day and decided to stop it? Or because the country threatened to become ungovernable if they didn't? Really, the bl…

I'm 50, and it'd be a stretch to say I "saw" that happen.

I was in high school before I realized that the Vietnam war had happened while I was alive.

I think the point is that grassroots activism has been effective once upon a time, but has not been effective for decades.

Re: The Real Class War

#419

Post by isthispermanent »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #381
pjc50 wrote: post #17

Well this pulls no punches: > Conservative donor gatherings are somehow even more pathetic. Most of the attendees are there only because they are not smart enough to recognize that the Democratic Party offers a far more effective reputation laundering service. The rest are probably too senile to know where they are at all. There is often a special irony to these events: an uninspiring ideologue is usually on hand to…

The last several screenfuls all all a very bitter rant. I find it hard to take seriously something written like this.

It does get a little screechy during the last 500-1000 words. First section is on point though.

Re: The Real Class War

#420

Post by rout39574 »

kortilla wrote: post #30
roenxi wrote: post #24

What a fantastic article; this might be the high point for my 2019 Hacker News reading. What clarity of vision. It is remarkable reflecting after an article like that on the complete inability of the US political system to organise itself to reward work done rather than access to the super-elite social circles. I'd love to know if this Julius fellow has a take on what mechanisms the 0.1% are using to drive the growin…

> political system to organise itself to reward work done How do you decide which work is valuable and which work isn’t?

Reading a book on that question right now; 'The Value of Everything'. Might be worth a look.
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