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Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

reuters.com

411–420 of 487 posts

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#411
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What government? I hope mine do not do that, this information should remine private...

you want private land ownership records? private tax records? private stock ownership records? you hate it so much your reasoning becomes blurry man. think a bit

Lemming...

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#412

What does "blockchain" even mean in this generalised context? When we are talking about crypto currencies, it is a distributed database with a consensus mechanism that is extremely costly to run. But this is not something you would need or want in most other situations, because there is always some degree of trust with your counterparties (and legal recourse if necessary). If we strip away the consensus mechanism, al…

"If we strip away the consensus mechanism, all that is left is a trivial data structure that anyone with a CS background could come up with. So, the question becomes where the real value proposition is in "blockchain technology" outside of the realm of crypto currencies. What are the things you can only do with "blockchain technology" that cannot be achieved with existing technology?" To paraphrase -- "if you discoun…

You do not answer the question: What are the things you can only do with "blockchain technology" that cannot be achieved with existing technology? The things you mention can already be done with centralized trusted databases, just as you said.

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You an achieve the same results from writing things to a git repo and publishing it. Any edits on previous commits would result in the entire repo being changed. Publish it to the world, push every commit hash on twitter/RSS/Email. Done. Or just use a merkle hash tree like CT logs do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_Transparency#Certi...

A merkle hash tree is what all of those (Git, Bitcoin and CT) use. BT just made it distributed. Funnily enough, CT was devised around four years after bitcoin and mentions it in their introduction article: https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2668154

Thanks for the link. Was looking for something like this, but couldn't find it.

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#414
post #356
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK great. Now how do you get "the blockchain" to know which paper rolls went into which shipping container.

I've heard the logistics value prop from a number of people, and not a single person has ever been able to fully articulate an answer to "okay walk me through how it works". I once literally went through 5+ iterations of this with a friend that devolved into hand-waving.

Provenance seems to be making headway. Not finding a detailed, recent white paper, but here is some reading: https://www.provenance.org/news/technology/blockchain-series...

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If we strip away the consensus mechanism, all that is left is a trivial data structure that anyone with a CS background could come up with. So, the question becomes where the real value proposition is in "blockchain technology" outside of the realm of crypto currencies. What are the things you can only do with "blockchain technology" that cannot be achieved with existing technology?" To paraphrase -- "if you discoun…

You do not answer the question: What are the things you can only do with "blockchain technology" that cannot be achieved with existing technology? The things you mention can already be done with centralized trusted databases, just as you said.

GP means to say that git can cover most use cases via Merkle operations/properties. What Merkle does is give a trustless distributed ledger. Mining/PoW allow fully trustless+anonymous while other methods are trustless in the sense you can create rules and identites leveraging signatures atop the Merkle in various ways and audit changes before voting, eg. PKI in my experience.

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#416
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from a logistics background, coordinating tracability data is painful within a company , even with help of ERP like SAP. But when you need tracability across an industry , it becomes almost impossible. I had professional experience in an industry where we had to go to the plants to ensure rolls of paper certified from suppliers using responsibly-managed forests were physically separated from the non-certified…

I never quite got my head around the value proposition for distributed ledgers in logistics ('smart warehouses / supply chains') and manufacturing ('industry 4.0'). Say you want to trace eco paper rolls around the globe. What could the blockchain do for you? Who are the nodes/miners/coins in this application? When you suspect some intermediate in the paper chain to exchange eco paper for cheaper ordinary paper, how d…

I think the OP stated that blockchains would alleviate the bureaucratic pains of international trade considerably. As bureaucracy requires labour, which is costly, I feel the value proposition is plausible.

Another feature is not related to inventory. Ledgers that have acute accountability features attached, where some stakeholders may have incentives to fake the records.

Like, for example transport truck driving schedules. Drivers are allowed only to drive so much, and there are penalties involved if the drivers don't rest enough. The main accountability measure here is the driving ledger. Whose maintainer has incentives to fudge it (the driver or the employer of the driver).

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#417
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You don't need "local currency". With widespread adoption you can just pay sellers directly with cryptocurrency.

Nope. In reality, the tax office comes along, demands to see the seller’s records, and if they haven’t kept comprehensive records of all transactions and the fair market value of the coins at transaction time in local currency, then they get fined, or if they’ve been actively evading tax, jailed. Plus, even if they’ve kept records perfectly, they need to get local currency at tax time in order to pay their tax bill.…

It can be good for speculation/investment and that's legal and kind of legitimate.

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#418
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything where you need to track serial ownership of something. One example of which might be car titles.

In the real world, ownership is more complicated than that, which is why the law is interpreted by judges and not computers. E.g., courts can transfer ownership of your car from you to someone else for a variety of reasons, without your consent. How does this work in a blockchain world? Your answer might be that the State (or the judicial system, I suppose) should have some special private key that lets them sign tra…

why should the state have any claim to my property? that’s your best argument. regardless, i’ll answer your question.

blockchain are immutable and public. therefore the government can’t be corrupt and steal/funnel people’s property like they do in the real world now. we can all scrutinize the transactions.

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The payment happens and confirms instantly. Withdrawal of funds from the payment processor is not the payment, because payments are not limited by 'time to cash liquidity'.

>The payment happens and confirms instantly. Let's say that merchant accepts payment via Visa on Day 1. On Day 2, Visa goes out of business. The merchant will never receive the payment. So no the payment is not instantaneous. The merchant receives an IOU from Visa that settles in a few days. IOUs != settled payments.

Yes, in your carefully crafted hypothetical where a billion dollar company goes out of business tomorrow, it means that company can't make payments tomorrow. What about nuclear winter? Dissolution of the U.S.? Alien invasions? We need account for these hypotheticals too when discussing the validity of payments.

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that EXACTLY the problem solved by cryptography, ie I can reliably know that only supplier X could have signed the message with the public key of supplier X ?

What if someone else gets their hands on supplier X's keys?

I've thought about this some and one way to at least "sort of" map a private key to a single trusted real-world individual/entity is to require it always keep a balance of some "high" amount on it to be considered valid. So three banks start out signing some new "blockchain" ledger with their private keys, each with $100M on it, and they probably are going to be really careful with those keys from then on, and not let anybody who doesn't really represent the entity sign things with them?
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