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Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

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Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#411

Post by manarth »

slantyyz wrote: post #325
010a wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There wouldn't have been any auxiliary advantages to switching to full TB2. TB2/mDP can't carry power. It was physically a much larger port, which means they couldn't scale down the size of the machine. And, ultimately, mDP is a much less useful port than the universally standard USB-C.

For the sake of argument, in 2011 we'd be talking about TB1. TB1/mdp is larger than USB-C - in 2011 terms though, it'd be considered small. The mdp port is smaller than regular USB, ethernet and FW800 - all ports available on early 2011 MBPs. TB1 should carry some power. I don't have my 2011 MBP any more, but I'm near certain that I was able to run a thunderbolt capable seagate external 2.5" hard drive without provid…

  > TB2/mDP can't carry power

  > > TB1 should carry some power. 
  > > I was able to run a thunderbolt capable seagate external 2.5" hard drive
(all this with the caveat of "I am not a physicist, but…")

All data is essentially energy/power, right? Isn't all communication, a change in energy state? Therefore, all data is essentially a transfer of energy/power.

Even the older standards - serial, firewire, USB 1, USB 2, USB 3, etc - carried some power, although (in general), a fairly small amount. I've used external USB-2 drives without a power source, except that provided by the USB-2 cable.

The maximum power-draw of a USB device is documented in the standards, but generally, USB 2 is permitted to draw 500mA, at 5V: 2.5W.

The power of TB2/mDP wasn't limited by the plug, but rather by the specifications of the standard/protocol.

USB-C is intended to provide significantly more power. All USB Type-C cables should support 60W. High-power cables should support 100W.

The older standards can (just about) provide enough power to spin a hard-disk, but the newer standards can power and charge a laptop.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#412

Post by m_mueller »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #332
JoshTriplett wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DisplayPort++ means a DisplayPort port that can also use a passive DP-to-HDMI or DP-to-DVI adapter, such as a DP-to-HDMI cable. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#DisplayPort.2B.2B The graphics chipset will actually detect this and handle it as though you hooked up an HDMI cable.

What a clusterfuck...

The moment where the Hacker News crowd can't even figure this out anymore ... is the moment I have to stop recommending macs for anyone in my family or friends. There were a few mac sales due to my recommendations, but that has to stop now. Good luck, Apple.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#413

Post by phil21 »

logicallee wrote: post #306
phil21 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is poor advice. I have that exact adapter, and it fails to work with >50% of the HDMI devices (monitors, TVs, projectors) in our office. This is kind of the point. I have to carry this, plus an offbrand HDMI adapter to hope to have greater than 50% chances of it working. As far as I'm aware there is no reliable USB-C -> HDMI adapter on the market that works with the MBP 2016. If there is another someone knows ab…

Quick question! If we step back from the thunderbolt/displayport/displayport++/usb-c, distinction, which you use on the left-hand side of your arrow... when you wrote: >"As far as I'm aware there is no reliable USB-C -> HDMI adapter on the market that works with the MBP 2016" , do you exactly mean the broader statement (I've reworded what I thought you mean) : >"As far as I am aware there is nothing that plugs into a…

Yep, your latter statement is correct. There is no single adapter I can carry around with my laptop (with a HDMI cable and expect it to reliably work with whatever HDMI device the location happens to have.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#414

Post by logicallee »

phil21 wrote: post #413
logicallee wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick question! If we step back from the thunderbolt/displayport/displayport++/usb-c, distinction, which you use on the left-hand side of your arrow... when you wrote: >"As far as I'm aware there is no reliable USB-C -> HDMI adapter on the market that works with the MBP 2016" , do you exactly mean the broader statement (I've reworded what I thought you mean) : >"As far as I am aware there is nothing that plugs into a…

Yep, your latter statement is correct. There is no single adapter I can carry around with my laptop (with a HDMI cable and expect it to reliably work with whatever HDMI device the location happens to have.

I couldn't understand why. I found this article echoing your experiences:

http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/11/26/beware-usb-c-hdmi-adapte...

Note that it ends saying "The Good News: DisplayPort Works

I purchased a couple of USB-C to DisplayPort adapters from Monoprice and am pleased to report that they both work just fine. As hoped, these simple adapters natively and passively attach Alternate Mode DisplayPort from the MacBook Pro’s integrated AMD GPU through the Intel Thunderbolt controller and connect perfectly with the monitors I’ve tried."

I then Googled "active displayport hdmi converter" (to find one with a little chip inside, that actively really outputs true HDMI.)

I found this page:

https://www.startech.com/eu/m/AV/Displayport-Converters/Disp...

Which says "Connect an HDMI® monitor to a DisplayPort® Video Source".

Since it's active, the Mac should see it as a DisplayPort device. The device then takes that signal and outputs HDMI. So while the resolution might not be perfect, I would expect this combination to work and let you connect your Mac to any HDMI device, period.

Since it sounds like you have this problem a lot, if you did end up buying that device I'd be keen to know if it worked! (email in my profile.)

Thanks.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#415

Post by logicallee »

m_mueller wrote: post #412
ndesaulniers wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a clusterfuck...

The moment where the Hacker News crowd can't even figure this out anymore ... is the moment I have to stop recommending macs for anyone in my family or friends. There were a few mac sales due to my recommendations, but that has to stop now. Good luck, Apple.

I am sure this will be fixed in a future iteration. In exhange you never have to flip a USB or HDMI cable around three times (turns out the first direction was right after all :) ) to plug it in, because USB-C can be plugged in either way. Worldwide, this literally saves multiple seconds every year. Have a little faith :)

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#416

Post by guitarbill »

api wrote: post #207

I'm calling it the MacBook Vista. Ouch. After seeing the touch bar, I think it's really not all that useful. I would much rather have seen more battery, RAM, faster CPU options, traditional USB and HDMI, magsafe, and more SSD. Basically take the 2014-2015 MacBook Pro and beef it up and I will be very happy. People say it's selling. Of course it is. Mac still has a near-monopoly on "Unix with good UI." But if they kee…

> Windows is becoming nicer in many ways, MS and other PC hardware is getting better, Linux desktop is steadily improving, etc.

Since moving to the NT kernel the underlying technology keeps getting better. But personally, I don't think the Windows UI is getting better, and the ecosystem sucks (app store, package manager, permissions system, etc).

Linux desktop is awesome, but laptop is tricky. Battery life can be abysmal without tinkering, although blaming Linux for shoddy drivers isn't exactly fair.

Non-Apple hardware+software always seems like a compromise, and we've been spoiled by Apple by having our cake and eating it. The most frustrating thing is that everything is a compromise now. Ironically, even though Apple is accused of not innovating anymore, I think many people would have preferred less innovation and more iteration.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#417

Post by eropple »

collyw wrote: post #368
eropple wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that reducing thickness is a selling point/feature for a lot of people on Apple products Is this actually true? Like...is there a material population of customers who really care about this? Not joking. I know zero people who care about that, at least for laptops. (I don't use an iPhone, so I don't pay attention to that side of things.)

I used to think this, then acquired a Macbook Air from work. Its is actually quite nice when traveling with only hand luggage to squeeze the laptop into a relatively full bag, yet you still have a big screen and keyboard. Not sure I would pay a lot more for that if I was paying myself, but it is nice to have.

For Airs, I can definitely buy that. (I owned an 11" for a while. It was great.) But it's more the 15" rMBP that I'm curious about. Like--you're not spending $2K on a computer to not use it, and the thinner it is, the more you're not going to be able to use it, yeah? It's weird.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#418

Post by guitarbill »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #123
Keyframe wrote: post #80

I went to a store in order to try one out. I wanted what was in 15" model in a 13" form, but ok - I went out to at least check out the 15" model. Even though I knew it was too big for my needs. What really surprised me was how bad the keyboard was on new models. What's up with that? It feels like a cheap plastic mockup of a keyboard. That turned me off completely. I hope they get their act together within a year and…

I'm still happy with the high-end Lenovo ThinkPads (currently using a W541) - not as awesome as in the early 2000s but still very solid, well-built, great keyboards, matte screens (but check if you mind this, I'm not sure if every model has them) and with trackpoint, which becomes a must when you get used to it.

I'm glad you've found something that works for you. I've had to use the W520, W530, W540, and W541. And sorry to be so negative, but they all suck. At least the W541 doesn't have chipset errors like e.g. W520 (x2APIC). But for 2016, I find the W541 behind times. So just a heads up to others on HN thinking of buying.

It's a huge, bulky machine that still manage to feel like cheap plastic. The trackpad is awful. It has all the obsolete ports you'd ever want, but no HDMI. The screen is okay, but 1080p. It's so heavy and unnecessarily large. The big battery pack sticks out of the back and means it won't fit into many laptop bags. And they're shockingly expensive.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#419

Post by m_mueller »

logicallee wrote: post #415
m_mueller wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment where the Hacker News crowd can't even figure this out anymore ... is the moment I have to stop recommending macs for anyone in my family or friends. There were a few mac sales due to my recommendations, but that has to stop now. Good luck, Apple.

I am sure this will be fixed in a future iteration. In exhange you never have to flip a USB or HDMI cable around three times (turns out the first direction was right after all :) ) to plug it in, because USB-C can be plugged in either way. Worldwide, this literally saves multiple seconds every year. Have a little faith :)

I'm sure it will. Until then I'll hold on zo my wallet as tightly as I can. Or try out Thinkpads or XPSses with some flavour of Linux but I don't have high hopes for their touchpads and screens / HiDPI software support. You know - the things I actually touch and see the whole time using the damn thing.

Sigh...

I've been watching old SJ presentations (1990-2003) lately and I long back to the time where general purpose personal computers, fully capable of tapping into the machine and creating with it whatever you want, was at the forefront of industry efforts. Updates twice a year. Moore's law in full force. Exiting times those were.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#420

Post by S_A_P »

illumin8 wrote: post #277
S_A_P wrote: post #106

I'm pretty disappointed by the new mbp and the state of Mac in general for several reasons. I've made pretty significant investments in the Mac ecosystem. I bought a semi pro sound card(uad Apollo 8) tons of software audio related plugins and logic and I don't have a lot of confidence that when it's time to replace my 2014 mbp that there will be a viable Mac option to replace it with. That immediately makes my sound…

Wait, can't you just buy a dongle to convert from USB-c to Thunderbolt 2 and continue to use your nice (I'm jealous, personally) UAD Apollo 8 with a 2016+ MBP?

I totally could and definitely would do so if the port changes stick and I decided to stay Mac. I'm more just irritated that I bought a Mac specific interface and they changed the port less than 1 year later.
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