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Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

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Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#411

Post by Johnnybe »

T2_t2 wrote: post #400
sien wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But from about 9 months you could both work say 3 days a week if you wanted. Mind you if you have another child you'd have to do that again. But good luck getting well paid 3 days a week work for both of you.

> But from about 9 months you could both work say 3 days a week if you wanted. TERRIBLE advice. In all things gender and money, Penelope Trunk is a goto: http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2013/01/07/how-to-pick-a-husba... > Don’t tell me that you want your husband to work part-time, because aiming for the impossible 50/50 split leads to divorce. First, because it’s the road to eternal poverty; part-time jobs are low pay,…

You are correct! People are so stupid when it comes to these gender discussions. I'm glad my wife and I have a traditional household. It works great and both of us are happy. Good luck to those with the "eye for an eye" mentality. You will never be happy.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#412

Post by geomark »

wahrsagevogel wrote: post #263
jfaucett wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is in large part because care for family members(children and elderly parents usually) is more often foisted upon women in our society than on men." I disagree. The primary cause is that women can become pregnant - the possibility alone is in most cases enough - in which case they leave the work force for X amount of time. Depending on country, laws, and personal preferences this time period can range from a fe…

> For instance, in Germany the woman's job position must be held open for her until she decides to return to work (possibly years later), not to mention the full salary compensation months before and after giving-birth, when she is no longer working. The company will be reimbursed for the salary by the health insurance upon filling out a form. A company does not pay a single cent more than the cost of hiring another…

Couple of questions: 1. Who pays for the insurance? 2. Why is it called insurance?

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#413

Post by AnthonyMouse »

shkkmo wrote: post #381
clevernickname wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The gender roles are not baked into out DNA. Men are larger and stronger than women, women are flooded with hormones during pregnancy that force a bond between them and their children. That is literally your biology encouraging a role. >There are 'baked-in' DNA traits, that have emergently caused cultures to adopt those gender roles in their historical contexts. Evolution is random chance leading to mutations that i…

> Men are larger and stronger than women, women are flooded with hormones during pregnancy that force a bond between them and their children. Strength/size is a physical trait, not a gender role. Hormone release is a physical process, not a gender role. >"A liberal swing in culture is trying to encourage people to abandon their traditional gender roles" If you think that gender roles haven't changed repeatedly underg…

> Strength/size is a physical trait, not a gender role. Hormone release is a physical process, not a gender role.

Where do you think gender roles come from?

The most common job in the US is truck driver. It's not software developer money but it pays better than you might expect. Truck drivers are overwhelming male and you might not see an obvious reason for that and want to blame "gender roles" or sexism.

But truck drivers get paid by the mile. So after you drive your truck to a loading dock, you're then standing around not getting paid while 20,000 pounds of freight is loaded or unloaded. You want to get back on the road doing the thing that makes you money, so the truck driver helps with the loading and unloading (which is what everybody expects you to do), and suddenly the population of truck drivers skews toward people with more physical strength which skews heavily male.

Then the truck driver is away from home all the time so the truck driver's spouse is the one who takes primary responsibility for the kids, and now we have gender roles even if society didn't start with them.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#414

Post by steve-howard »

bcook wrote: post #385
thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. But i don't see how you can go from that to assuming women are necessarily more emotional. You kind of need some data to back that up. Note that men murder and kill and rape at a high rate due to their emotions.

If I assume men are more emotional, do I deseve the same backlash? Fuck PC culture. (Sorry, I am in a bad mood today. Irony unintended.)

We could perhaps say that men and women both experience strong emotions but that both the emotions and the way they've been socialized to express them are quite different.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#415

Post by AnthonyMouse »

4bpp wrote: post #359
thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i agree. and this goes both ways. some people start from the axiom that racism/sexism don't exist and modify their interpretation of the data to match that. "There's no pay difference". others perceive racism/sexism everywhere and only read that the 95 percentile and unweighted pays are different. We can get off the political topic and start with other axioms as well. IE some believe more women need to be involved in…

> i agree. and this goes both ways. some people start from the axiom that racism/sexism don't exist and modify their interpretation of the data to match that. "There's no pay difference". Yes, of course. Really, for all the talk about convoluted biases clouding people's decision-making, it's pretty telling that most of the time, they don't even manage to get past the basic challenge of actually letting the evidence l…

A huge part of the problem is the "evidence" is terrible. There are so many degrees of freedom and so much entropy in what you're trying to measure that anyone can easily make the numbers say whatever they want.

The answer to "is it society or biology" is both. And it will always be both, because you can't change biology and you can't "balance" society without being able to disentangle biology, and disentangling biology from society would violate both causality and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Even measuring how much of each it is has the same problem.

People want to say we just need better evidence. We just need to measure it better or be more diligent or think about it more carefully. But it isn't that. It's that the problem is NP-complete and n is large. It may even be incomputable because some of the necessary information was lost to history and not knowable.

Which is why it's a political football. People choose their team and see how far they can run with the ball, because the score isn't based on science or math.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#416

Post by lagadu »

reitanqild wrote: post #281
lagadu wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already mandatory in multiple european countries and it leads to nothing of the sort.

Because Europe already has an average of <2 kids pr couple?

Thus indicating that us getting over a year of parental leave for each kid doesn't lead to mass breeding.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#417

Post by lagadu »

chongli wrote: post #112
RodericDay wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parental leave is paid.

But how much is it paid? If somebody is making six figures, is it going to cover the whole amount? That seems unlikely. If it's a low percentage of the total amount, then it's forcing a big pay cut that families may not be able to afford.

Details vary by country, but in the three countries I've lived in 100% of your salary. It's paid by social security, even if your salary is in the seven figures, then you also paid a high amount to social security to cover for it.

edit: here's a table with more details https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Europe_.28inc._...

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#418

Post by towlejunior »

knughit wrote: post #358
randyrand wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> society still sucks at gender equality when it comes to enabling parents to equally contribute With very few exceptions, mammalian females are almost entirely responsible for child-rearing across the board. So all signs point that its also hormones too. We as a society need to start equalizing hormones. Women need to start taking testosterone and men need to take estrogen. We will only be equal once there is a sing…

I suppsoe there is a hormone for washing dishes and doing laundry also.

Laundry is the most overrated chore. Clothes in, detergent in, shut the lid, push the button. You can do it in 45 seconds.

Regardless, you don't know what other people's chore splits are like. It's not something you can observe.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#419

Post by shkkmo »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #413
shkkmo wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Men are larger and stronger than women, women are flooded with hormones during pregnancy that force a bond between them and their children. Strength/size is a physical trait, not a gender role. Hormone release is a physical process, not a gender role. >"A liberal swing in culture is trying to encourage people to abandon their traditional gender roles" If you think that gender roles haven't changed repeatedly underg…

> Strength/size is a physical trait, not a gender role. Hormone release is a physical process, not a gender role. Where do you think gender roles come from? The most common job in the US is truck driver. It's not software developer money but it pays better than you might expect. Truck drivers are overwhelming male and you might not see an obvious reason for that and want to blame "gender roles" or sexism. But truck d…

...wow... Do you really believe the reason why fewer than 6% of truck drivers are female is because women are not physically strong enough for the job?

Do you really believe this has nothing to do with the sexism of the industry and the perception of this industry by society?

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